rules question

gman4tide · Sep 12, 2012

Dang this place is dead!

Rule question...offense lined up in pistol with off set fullback to left. When directed, fb motions BEHIND the qb to the right side and comes set for a count before the ball is snapped. White hat called illegal procedure and said motion had to be in front of qb? Anyone else heard of that?? High school if that matters.

bamajake · Sep 17, 2012

I'm not sure where you are or who the official was, but if it happened the way you described it, it sounds like he was wrong. There is nothing that says that a back in motion has to go in front of or behind the QB. The only requirement is that he cannot be moving toward the opponent's goal line (toward the line) at the snap. Sounds to me that someone (wearing stripes perhaps) got confused.

gman4tide · Sep 18, 2012

We were at hillcrest high school. First game of season. Been to lots of confernces, 7 on 7's etc and its never been an issue. Got to hillcrest and he called it twice, i think. We had obviously worked on that set up a lot for hillcrest because instead of getting completely away from it, we went ahead and did what he said we had to do (motioned in front of qb). Haven't run it since I don't think.

Jref · Sep 19, 2012

Here are the applicable rules, directly from the 2012 NFHS rules book:

[2-39] "A shift is the action of one or more offensive players who, after a huddle or after taking set positions, move to a new set position before the ensuing snap."

[7-2-6] "After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute
stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands,
feet, head or body for at least one second before the snap." (emphasis added)

On the play that was flagged, the ball was snapped immediately after the shift, without the required one second pause.

The coach was never told by the white hat that shifting in front of the QB would make it legal.

What would make it legal would be for the back to remain in motion, either parallel to or away from the line of scrimmage. He could do that either in front of or behind the QB.

gman4tide · Sep 19, 2012

He came set. For longer than a second. Were you the ref? I was told when I got on the sideline that the white hat told the head coach that the fullbacks shift "must" be in front of the qb. If what you say, "What would make it legal would be for the back to remain in motion, either parallel to or away from the line of scrimmage.", were true...why then did the white hat not call illegal proc the rest of the game when the fullback came set after shifting from one side to the other?

gman4tide · Sep 19, 2012

And I'm not trying to be argumentative. When my kids get outta school, I'm going to become a football/baseball official. I just like to understand the rules.

Jref · Sep 19, 2012

gman4tide said:
He came set. For longer than a second.

Not before the snap started.

I was told when I got on the sideline that the white hat told the head coach that the fullbacks shift "must" be in front of the qb.

Then you were told wrong. That absolutely did not happen.

If what you say, "What would make it legal would be for the back to remain in motion, either parallel to or away from the line of scrimmage.", were true...why then did the white hat not call illegal proc the rest of the game when the fullback came set after shifting from one side to the other?

Because for the rest of the game the shifting player did come set for a full second before the snap.

Jref · Sep 19, 2012

gman4tide said:
And I'm not trying to be argumentative. When my kids get outta school, I'm going to become a football/baseball official. I just like to understand the rules.

You'll be welcomed, I guarantee!

bamajake · Sep 20, 2012

It seems that we have a difference in perspective here. That is why I said in my first post that if it happened as described in the original post something was wrong. This shows why we as officials have such a thankless job. Everyone one one side of the field sees one thing while everyone on the other sees something different. That is to be expected. People tend to see things that happen on the field in a light that they want to see them. As officials, we do not care which team wins. We simply call what we see.

Gman, I hope you do get into officiating. We need officials statewide in all sports. More importantly, we need officials who want to learn the rules and mechanics and be good officials and not just be on the field collecting a few dollars. It sounds to me that you will fall into the first category and will put in the time and effort it takes to be a good official. If anything else happens at any of your games this year, or if you hear about anything at any other game, bring it up. One way that officials get better is to discuss plays and situations among themselves. If you start doing that now, you will have a head start when you get into officiating.

gman4tide · Sep 21, 2012

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