Question: The current and foreseeable state of our two biggest rivals. Thoughts?

Bamabuzzard

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http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/57395/vols-back-to-the-drawing-board

Just read this article from Chris Low on espn.com and considering Auburn's situation and now what seems to be a growing situation for Tennessee, in just trying to find someone to take the job. It got me thinking, are we seeing the beginning of a long downturn in the "health"/stability/success of both of these programs?

Auburn: I don't need to go into all the details of what's going on down there. They've been hashed and re-hashed on this board for over a year now. Their program appears to be in a very unstable and chaotic state right now. As Jess pointed out in his latest article, there are absolutely NO signs of Auburn slowing down the recruiting machine in Tuscaloosa to allow them to close the obvious gap that Bama has created.

Tennessee: They seem to have good talent sprinkled throughout the roster but no depth and absolutely no vision or leadership on where the program is going. It looks like that perception has filtered out into the coaching market as well. Will they have to "settle" and bring in a coach that will continue the trend they've been on for the last three to four years?

Any thinkers on the board this morning with some opinions?
 

B1GTide

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Outsiders perspective - either program is stong enough to quickly rebound if they find the right coach, but both are under the scrutiny of the NCAA right now, so neither will attract a really talented coach until that is behind them. Ask again in two years, after all of the NCAA fallout is clear.
 

gman4tide

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Outsiders perspective - either program is stong enough to quickly rebound if they find the right coach, but both are under the scrutiny of the NCAA right now, so neither will attract a really talented coach until that is behind them. Ask again in two years, after all of the NCAA fallout is clear.
utk has a better opportunity to rebound quickly...given they are able to get a competent leader. They have the players along with overall numbers. The barn however, I do not see recovering any time soon. Their numbers are down. Their talent is down. It will take a long time to get back close to 85 scholarshipped players...and that doesn't include any sanctions that may happen. The exodus that has been the last 3 years has gutted the program and with the signing limitations...will take a while. Throw on top of that...the PTB have made it clear...they wanted another "yes man" and got him. SNASS.
 

selmaborntidefan

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The note about the Vols winning the national title with players from other states might be the most important line in that article. What was going on that enabled this?

Alabama on probation, 1995-97
Auburn on probation, 1993-95
Georgia imploding under Donnan
Kentucky coached by Bill Curry until 1996
Ole Miss on probation, 1994-98
Arkansas not yet built, Ford fired 1997

Their title was strictly due to the mess that was the SEC back then. They could grab players from the twin states with the probation card - that's also why MSU was so good from 1997-2000 (along with their money payment system through a church in Starkville - yes, that's true).

I don't know if Tennessee can ever be a power again. The game of recruiting has changed so much that it can only be harder.

As far as Auburn, they will always have an inferiority complex and be looking up at Alabama - this leads to insanity and ridiculous decisions.
 

Al A Bama

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I just wonder how Mr. Hart is feeling about now: no Gundy, no Strong, et al. Who's left? Jones from Cincinnati? Kirby from Alabama?

What does this say about the program at Tennessee? What does it say about Hart? Maybe they could hire Trooper.

I guess sometimes you can luck out with a non-hire like us with Rich Rod. Is it time for them to make an investment like Alabama did? Maybe Harbaugh? That would cost them big time. I do honestly think that Jones from Cincy would be a good hire. He has won everywhere he's been. If he does go to Colorado, I really feel for him.
 

twofbyc

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Outsiders perspective - either program is stong enough to quickly rebound if they find the right coach, but both are under the scrutiny of the NCAA right now, so neither will attract a really talented coach until that is behind them. Ask again in two years, after all of the NCAA fallout is clear.
Sounds like an answer my magic 8-ball would have given - LOL
Seriously, though, it's not far off the mark. But I am not sure the "clearing" of the NCAA fallout will help the barners, simply because of who runs the show on the plain (Chicklets came in before any NCAA mess).
As for Sloppy Top, their issues run much deeper...into their bank account. They have serious financial issues, and that program may be an under-performer for years to come. No proven HC will go there, unless the money is right.
 

luvthat_TIDE

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http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/57395/vols-back-to-the-drawing-board

Just read this article from Chris Low on espn.com and considering Auburn's situation and now what seems to be a growing situation for Tennessee, in just trying to find someone to take the job. It got me thinking, are we seeing the beginning of a long downturn in the "health"/stability/success of both of these programs?

Auburn: I don't need to go into all the details of what's going on down there. They've been hashed and re-hashed on this board for over a year now. Their program appears to be in a very unstable and chaotic state right now. As Jess pointed out in his latest article, there are absolutely NO signs of Auburn slowing down the recruiting machine in Tuscaloosa to allow them to close the obvious gap that Bama has created.

Tennessee: They seem to have good talent sprinkled throughout the roster but no depth and absolutely no vision or leadership on where the program is going. It looks like that perception has filtered out into the coaching market as well. Will they have to "settle" and bring in a coach that will continue the trend they've been on for the last three to four years?

Any thinkers on the board this morning with some opinions?
I truly believe utk will be ok. I was worried about Bama for about 5 years after the Coach Dubose debacle. Wondering if we would ever get back to where we normally are, took a while. Utk is also a proud program and will bounce back. The barn is another story.
 

rgw

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I don't think Auburn is in as bad of a situation as we'd like to believe. Of course, this is all contingent on the validity of the NCAA-related rumors. They'll have a difficult offense to prepare against and apparently they have just inked Ellis Johnson to a deal. Coach Johnson always get a good pass rush out of his down four and I think that is the kind of defense you have to play with this kind of tempo offense. You can't plan on outright stopping teams because of the time on the field, but you can eventually get the opponent pressing for points and get sacks to seal the game.

If the NCAA rumors turn out mild or non-existent, I think Auburn is going to solidify themselves at the second tier with TAMU in the West behind LSU and Alabama.
 

bamamc1

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I laugh everytime I read about ole' gus malzhan's offense. Let's see 8-5 2 years and they almost lost 4-5 games with a once in a lifetime qb the year they bought the title. Discipline? Yeah let's see, I'll take spice smoking, gun loaning, Mike Dyer with me to Ar St.

UcheaT deserves everything they get and MORE
 

TideEngineer08

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It's not good.

As someone else stated, the dynamics have changed. For Tennessee, they must go out of state. With such stable situations at Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina, they are truly behind the 8-ball in recruiting. Tennessee's program reminds me of the housing bubble. Everything got inflated and now its crashed. I don't see it coming back any time soon.

Auburn is in a similar boat with regards to recruiting. Everyone around them is stable and they are second fiddle to all of those schools. They have to cut corners where they can and that's not easy to do. We'll see how Malzahn handles it but I can't see them rebounding any time soon.
 

JeffAtlanta

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I don't know if Tennessee can ever be a power again. The game of recruiting has changed so much that it can only be harder.
Great points. Also, don't forget Rodney Garner. He was UT's key for Georgia talent and once Mark Richt hired him away, it pretty much cut of UT's oxygen.

It will take exceptional circumstances for UT to ever be a power again. The state has very little talent so it will require a coach that can recruit nationally. Somehow Fulmer was able to do this for a while, but like you said, the rest of the SEC being crippled really helped with that.

Auburn will always have access to a significant share of Alabama, & Georgia talent - UT does not.
 
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rgw

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The changes in recruiting rules to curb Saban - the school contact rules - really hurt Tennessee more than Saban I believe.

Tennessee use to put boots on the ground at high schools across the nation and especially on the West coast and upper Eastern seaboard.
 

bamamc1

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I'll also say this about au: I think folks pretty much were starting to figure out malzhaun in that 3rd year. When you have Saban and Smart, Miles and Chevis, Will Muschamp etc. you don't "trick" your way to wins nearly as much. Sound fundamentals and talent win, not just a system.
 

lincoln_osiris

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I think the state of affairs within the entire athletic department at UT is gonna take a minute to get over. Auburn is probably in a better position, pending NCAA decisions. Gus would have to be way better than I think he is, but they get talent and with a great coach, Could turn it around quickly. Freshman have a lot more impact these days than they used to, and a couple good classes can put you right in the mix if the talent is developed. Lots of "ifs", huh?
 

JeffAtlanta

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Tennessee use to put boots on the ground at high schools across the nation and especially on the West coast and upper Eastern seaboard.
That's a good point. Southern Cal's resurgance also seemed to cut off a lot of talent from UT. If Notre Dame gets their national recruiting going in full force again, that will hurt UT's efforts in the west coast and northeast.
 

GrayTide

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Good question BB. au, while down on numbers, has more talent than UT. The return of Malzahn with the spread type players already on campus should get au back in the 7 to 8 win seasons fairly quickly. The key to au's return will rest with the defense and they have made a horrible hire to coordinate the defense. With the emergence of TAMU and possibly a new and improved Arkansas in a couple of years, au will settle into the slot right above the Mississippi schools battling with Arky.

UT, IMO has a much tougher mountain to climb. They have no coach and have no identity at this point. They can still recruit the southeast, but as mentioned, the rise of certain schools, USC, UGA and UF has cut those pipelines down to a trickle. Of all the SEC schools looking to re-tool its program UT is in the worst position.

* I would add that au's return to respecatability in the W-L column could be derailed if the NCAA decides to do something which is highly doubtful.
 
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rammerjammer69

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I'll also say this about au: I think folks pretty much were starting to figure out malzhaun in that 3rd year. When you have Saban and Smart, Miles and Chevis, Will Muschamp etc. you don't "trick" your way to wins nearly as much. Sound fundamentals and talent win, not just a system.
Bingo. An offense like Gus runs always does better the 1st couple of years when teams have not adjusted to it. I'm not worried about Gus at all unless he finds the next Cam which is unlikely. Even if they do get an elite QB, we still know how to defend his offense. It took pretty much the luckiest breaks ever in a football game for Cam to beat us and we adjusted to A&M after the 1st quarter. It's not like we we've been dominated for 4 quarters by the spread, even with great qb's.

For *U, a lot hinges on possible sanctions. Right now *U is effectively on probation already with them not being able to keep guys on the roster. Add sanctions to that and it will be ugly-not just in numbers but the quality of recruits they can hope to get. If the NCAA gives them yet another pass it will be easier to get their numbers up but very hard to consistently recruit elite defensive players over time. Without Trooper, how can *U hope to keep up and take the majority of big name players in state going against Saban? They've got a lot of ground to make up as is to get anywhere near our level of talent & depth. It didn't work using Trooper and realistically what are their chances recruiting against us straight up over the next 2-3 years? Of course, it's auburn so they must have something underhanded planned to try stay with us.
 

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