Poll: Should we disavow the 1941 Championship?

Should we disavow the 1941 Championship?


  • Total voters
    148
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Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
Actually, Bama had more Selectors award their NC to them in 1966 and 1977 than 1941. Six (ARGH Power Ratings, Cliff Morgan, Clyde Berryman, Earl Jessen, National Championship Foundation, Soren Sorensen) in 1966. Two (Bob Kirlin, College Football Researchers Association) in 1977. One (Houlgate System) in 1941.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data...nal_champs.php
I respect the post sincerely but there's a simple fact that needs to be addressed---If in fact the Houlgate System was recognized as a legitimate championship selector or poll in 1941 then that's the way it was. If they selected us then they did.

We can't use 2012 logic to determine if 1941 logic was correct. It's not 1941.

sip
 

bama70

3rd Team
Oct 19, 2011
254
8
37
NE Alabama
Are we going to someday not count the years we were AP champions or BCS champions because there wasn't a playoff those years? Heck, I was at the University during the 1966 season and I still think we were shafted. During several of the 14 championship years there were multiple champions in various polls. I am sure the team that won the UPI trophy in 1964 counts that as a championship year.
 

mikes12

All-American
Nov 10, 2005
3,548
0
0
49
Chattanooga, TN
Until 1998, we had no BCS system. Pretty soon, there will be a playoff. Over the years, there have been many different organizations that awarded championships. I think we should recognize every accomplishment awarded.
 

ALA2262

All-American
Aug 4, 2007
4,977
393
102
Cumming, GA
Ironic that Bama allowed one man (Wayne Atcheson) to determine which years that they would recognize as National Championship years. And that he allowed one man ( Deke Houlgate) to determine that 1941 would be one of those years.
 
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edwd58

All-American
Aug 2, 2006
4,710
1,390
187
The Championships were awarded to, and belong to, the University. I'm okay with claiming whichever titles the University opts to recognize. Usually it's our rivals who tend to get bent out of shape about which one(s) we claim.
 

CapstoneGrad06

Hall of Fame
Jan 19, 2006
7,105
0
0
41
Houston, Texas
I respectfully do not agree at all. The way they did it back then wasn't the way they do it now but that doesn't mean that, at the time, it was wrong. That would be like asking Army and the Notre Dame Rockne teams to give up the titles they earned back then as well and that's just not good for college football history and tradition.
Notre Dame only claims consensus titles. Alabama wasn't even in the top five in the final polls in 1941. That was a 9-2 team that finished third in the SEC standing, behind Mississippi State and Tennessee.
 

CapstoneGrad06

Hall of Fame
Jan 19, 2006
7,105
0
0
41
Houston, Texas
I respect the post sincerely but there's a simple fact that needs to be addressed---If in fact the Houlgate System was recognized as a legitimate championship selector or poll in 1941 then that's the way it was. If they selected us then they did.

We can't use 2012 logic to determine if 1941 logic was correct. It's not 1941.

sip
The Houlgate System was a mathematical system used to determine champions from 1937-1958. However, I feel that the AP and UPI/Coaches polls should be the determining factor between 1936 and 1997. Prior to 1936, the Rose Bowl champion was usually recognized as your national champion and "wire service champ". After 1997, it is of course the BCS.
 

Blindside13

All-SEC
Oct 22, 2011
1,846
1
0
Near the Barn
Maybe we need to ask the real so called experts over at the barn how many titles we should claim.LOL!!!!!! Bottom line is we have shown time and time again we are a national contenter and continue to prove this over and over and that point can not be disputed.
 

CapstoneGrad06

Hall of Fame
Jan 19, 2006
7,105
0
0
41
Houston, Texas
I wish I could find it again, but there is a recruiting letterhead that was floating around for some time. It was from 1981 or 1982. It listed Alabama's national championships at the top (1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, and 1979). Alabama didn't officially claim the Rose Bowl teams or 1941 until the mid-1980s, when the SID made the change.
 

banjeaux

All-American
Jun 6, 2007
2,131
1
0
Slidell, Louisiana
Interesting 2004 TF thread on topic & Houlgate explanation video

Ironic that Bama allowed one man (Wayne Atcheson) to determine which years that they would recognize as National Championship years. And that he allowed one man ( Deke Houlgate) to determine that 1941 would be one of those years.
ALA2262, Deke Houlgate had credentials, which were recognized by many in 1941 and prior. In the linked video, below in this thread, Houlgate's grandson explains this system of ranking. It makes good sense to me. Likely, it will make sense to others, after watching the video.


I say keep 1941. Plus, add 1966 & a few others. ROLL TIDE!

Link to 2004 thread, which explains Houlgate very well. Those who want context will click & read.

http://www.tidefans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19012



1941 Bama uniform​
 
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IMALOYAL1

All-American
Oct 28, 2000
3,927
246
187
Birmingham AL
I wish I could find it again, but there is a recruiting letterhead that was floating around for some time. It was from 1981 or 1982. It listed Alabama's national championships at the top (1961, 1964, 1965, 1973, 1978, and 1979). Alabama didn't officially claim the Rose Bowl teams or 1941 until the mid-1980s, when the SID made the change.
You seem to have struck a nerve with this topic. It is a point of ridicule from many opposing fan-basses that 1941 is claimed by Alabama. Like you say, until the 80s when Wayne Atcheson then the SID, added 5 championships to the media guide the University did not officially recognize that year as a championship.

"Atcheson is the former Alabama sports information director who added five pre-Bear Bryant national titles to the team's media guide in the 1980s."

So how did an SID from the Ray Perkins era -- a period with zero SEC titles, much less any national titles -- shape such a core belief that many Alabama supporters today accept as gospel?
"I tried to make Alabama football look the best it could look and just make it as great as it could possibly be,"

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2010/01/got_12.html
 
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ALA2262

All-American
Aug 4, 2007
4,977
393
102
Cumming, GA
1
< 1
Minnesota (84.5)
Big Ten
8-0
945.5
DNP
2
< 3
Duke (9.5)
Southern
9-0
725.5

3
< 4
Notre Dame
Ind
8-0-1
675

4
< 10
Texas (1)
SWC
7-1-1
494.67

5
< 6
Michigan
Big Ten
6-1-1
455

6
< 8
Fordham (NY)
Ind
7-1
399.33
W 30-9 vs New York
7
< 7
Missouri (1)
Big 6
8-1
328

8
< 5
Duquesne (PA)
Ind
8-0
309.67
DNP
9
< 2
Texas A&M
SWC
8-1
229.67

10
< 11
Navy (MD)
Ind
7-1-1
220.67

11
< 9
Northwestern
Big Ten
5-3
167

12
< 17
Oregon State
PCC
7-2
132.67

13
< 15
Ohio State
Big Ten
6-1-1
81

14
< 20
Georgia
SEC
8-1-1
62.67

15
< 13
Penn
Ind
7-1
61.67

16
< NR
Mississippi State
SEC
7-1-1
18.67

17
< 14
Mississippi
SEC
6-2-1
10

18
< NR
Tennessee
SEC
8-2
8

19
< NR
Washington State
PCC
6-3
7
DNP
20
< 18
Alabama
SEC
8-2
6
 
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