Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

Bamabuzzard

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Fox's Officiating Consultant discussing this very issue:

So the element that is making this thing difficult to defend has nothing to do with the spread. But the no huddle? Like I said. This is the element that is causing defenses issues. The inability to read and adjust. No matter the offense being run. Alabama could run the no huddle with our pro style offense and accomplish the same thing.
 

257WBY

Suspended
Aug 20, 2011
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What is your overall line of thinking regarding offenses like aTm's, Oregon's & Ole Miss'? Do you think that these style offenses are superior to the style defenses of an Alabama, LSU, Florida etc.? And that ultimately it is the SEC defenses that are the ones going to be forced to change, not these type offenses? Curious to read your thoughts.
I think the SEC defenses will be forced to go lighter and faster against TAMU, Ole Miss, Auburn, and the others that run this offense. This would be where Alabama would move Vinnie to OLB and bring in a better cover safety or CB. The only teams that have given Alabama trouble in recent years have been ones with an athletic QB. Even one as sorry as JJ as been been a threat because he can run. With a read-option type QB, you have to account for another football player. If you don't have Alabama type talent, you need to make defenses account for another player.
The magic of the offense is that you can run out of it like the option of the old days. As I stated earlier, Baylor only passed 13 times vs UCLA, while rushing for 306. A dominant running game is still possible, but you give the defenses more to think about.
 

AggieMom

Suspended
Nov 19, 2012
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Huntsville, AL
I have a little problem calling this "gimmicky" since to effectively run this offense requires a major commitment to conditioning. Texas A&M players talked about how when they started running this offense their tongues were hanging out half way through practice. When I think gimmick, I think something that is a passing fancy and not requiring a major commitment. This conditioning allowed them to go through 12 week schedule with no bye week and also probably played some role in their lack of significant injuries. I was amused by people suggesting that teams should start running no huddle for the next week's game. Obviously it could be done for a few plays, but not full time like aTm does it.
 

bamadp

All-SEC
Sep 24, 2006
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Sheffield, Al.
Some take offense to the terms "gimmicky" or "soft", but whatever term is used it all boils down to the same thing...I've been watching football for many years, and the same things win now that always have. You run the ball, stop the run, and win turnovers and teams that run these type of offenses are not ideal for any of these. That's what wins championships and neither Kevin Sumlin at A&M or Chip Kelly at Oregon are gonna change that. Can they win some games? Sure. Can they "entertain" this "video game" generation? Most definitely. Can they win a Championship? Not likely...they haven't yet, and unless the rules are changed, it's not likely. I guess I'm used too "old man football"...or as I say..."winning football".
 

CrimsonProf

Hall of Fame
Dec 30, 2006
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I think it's worth noting for the teams that properly execute these offenses - spread, no huddle, uptempo, air raid, zone read, pistol, etc. - they win a lot more than they lose. Tony Franklin commented on the offense one time and was quick to note that Baylor is now winning a lot more games than they previously did. I'm inclined to agree with that. Handled correctly these teams are winning most of the games they should and a few of the games they shouldn't. That has to count for something.

I really like what we do with our offense, and I don't want it to change. That said, it should be noted that as you all know we've used the pistol and certain spread formations and McElwain and Nuss are both products of the John L. Smith/Jack Elway one-back school that also influenced a lot of air-raid guys like Kevin Sumlin and Dana Holgorsen. Indeed, we're a more run heavy version of Petrino's offense, as Petrino learned most of his stuff from his time with JLS. We may run the ball, and run it well, but we don't play Stallings ball anymore.

The thing that we're not considering is that our offensive line recruiting is a rarity. The SEC can recruit lineman 3-deep in a way that other schools simply cannot, and so those schools have adjusted. Great defense is always important, and I know that uptempo teams have a hard time making their defenses work. But I don't blame any coach for doing what he can with the resources he has, and to chalk up an entire school of offense - one that has influenced what we do! - to gimmicks, ratings and video games is patronizing to both the players and coaches.
 

gwilliams

1st Team
Aug 29, 2011
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Chip Kelly was leading late in the fourth quarter of a NC game. Not bad so far.
Oregon was playing an Auburn team that was behind nearly every decent team they played in 2010. Several of AU opponents in 2010 outscored Oregon.
 

bamadp

All-SEC
Sep 24, 2006
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Sheffield, Al.
Chip Kelly was leading late in the fourth quarter of a NC game. Not bad so far.


But they lost. You don't get a crystal ball for leading late in the fourth. I believe if you check the stats for that game you'll find that Oregon couldn't run or stop the run and lost. In fact, I'd bet that if you checked the stats for most of the BCSNCG's you'd find that the losers couldn't or didn't run the ball, and couldn't stop the run. It's not rocket science, coaches have known this for years....but knowing what you need to do and doing it are two different things. A lot of old-timers (myself included) see these types of offenses as a shortcut to a NC in lieu of doing what's necessary to win a NC. Other coaches are basically saying "I can't get the players and do what is necessary, so I'm going try it this way". It's a microcosm of these times, ask CNS..."I want the rewards without the work".
 

1958againbear

1st Team
Jan 27, 2011
693
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I think it's worth noting for the teams that properly execute these offenses - spread, no huddle, uptempo, air raid, zone read, pistol, etc. - they win a lot more than they lose. Tony Franklin commented on the offense one time and was quick to note that Baylor is now winning a lot more games than they previously did. I'm inclined to agree with that. Handled correctly these teams are winning most of the games they should and a few of the games they shouldn't. That has to count for something.

I really like what we do with our offense, and I don't want it to change. That said, it should be noted that as you all know we've used the pistol and certain spread formations and McElwain and Nuss are both products of the John L. Smith/Jack Elway one-back school that also influenced a lot of air-raid guys like Kevin Sumlin and Dana Holgorsen. Indeed, we're a more run heavy version of Petrino's offense, as Petrino learned most of his stuff from his time with JLS. We may run the ball, and run it well, but we don't play Stallings ball anymore.

The thing that we're not considering is that our offensive line recruiting is a rarity. The SEC can recruit lineman 3-deep in a way that other schools simply cannot, and so those schools have adjusted. Great defense is always important, and I know that uptempo teams have a hard time making their defenses work. But I don't blame any coach for doing what he can with the resources he has, and to chalk up an entire school of offense - one that has influenced what we do! - to gimmicks, ratings and video games is patronizing to both the players and coaches.
I don't like the word gimmick really. Yes these teams have won lots of games. What do you do when you can't field 22 quality players? You load up on offense, score a lot of points and win games that way (except for the few who load their players on defense and hope you dont score, sort of Stallings-like) - in basketball you fast break, play uptempo and maybe full court pressure. Before the current crop of coaches there were the Hal Mummes, June Jones, etc. A big difference recently has been the addition of some unbelievably athletic QBs who could throw the option in there too making things even more difficult for the defenses. Eventually the fad starts to wane as teams begin to figure out how to defense it, teams can't get a Johnny Football every year, etc. Even Spurriers Fun and Gun was fading by the time he left UF. So uptempo, wide open, air raid, spread, whatever all the different components that may be included and have been around for years aren't really gimmicks as much as just a style of offense, although some of these offenses may be more prone to throw in a lot of gimmicky plays ala Malzahn and some of his stupid high school stuff.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 

257WBY

Suspended
Aug 20, 2011
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But they lost. You don't get a crystal ball for leading late in the fourth. I believe if you check the stats for that game you'll find that Oregon couldn't run or stop the run and lost. In fact, I'd bet that if you checked the stats for most of the BCSNCG's you'd find that the losers couldn't or didn't run the ball, and couldn't stop the run. It's not rocket science, coaches have known this for years....but knowing what you need to do and doing it are two different things. A lot of old-timers (myself included) see these types of offenses as a shortcut to a NC in lieu of doing what's necessary to win a NC. Other coaches are basically saying "I can't get the players and do what is necessary, so I'm going try it this way". It's a microcosm of these times, ask CNS..."I want the rewards without the work".
They lost to a team doing the same thing.
 

JIB

Suspended
Nov 2, 2011
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Sterrett
The hurry up spread is essentially the triple option in terms of equalizing. The issue with the hurry up is that it gives you match up advantages by not allowing substitutions. I think it's sort of lame. I say line up and go head to head. It does win games though, but it doesn't consistently win championships. Oregon may get one next year, maybe TAMU will get it next year if they don't. Who knows?


Really though, the more talented team usually wins. The team that makes the fewest mistakes usually wins. When you're more talented and make fewer mistakes you almost always win. That goes for any team.
 

bamadp

All-SEC
Sep 24, 2006
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Sheffield, Al.
They lost to a team doing the same thing.


Did you look at the stats? Oregon 32 rushes for 75 yards...Auburn 50 rushes for 257 yards. It's pretty obvious they weren't "doing the same thing". Oregon couldn't run, and couldn't stop the run, and lost. I was a Duck fan that night, I wanted them to beat the aubs, but Auburn controlled the LOS on both sides and I knew it would take some kind of miracle for the Ducks to win. IIRC Oregon never "led in the fourth quarter". They tied the game by scoring a TD and 2-point conversion with about two minutes left, then allowed the Aubs to drive 80 yards for the game wining FG, and nearly all that was rushing.

Ya run the ball and stop the run...it's simple. Teams with these types of O either don't or can't do that. The question is...how long will it be before Sumlin, Kelly, and Stoops figure that out.
 

AggieMom

Suspended
Nov 19, 2012
57
0
0
Huntsville, AL
I can't speak for other teams that run the hurry up offense, but aTm ran approximately equal numbers of run and pass plays. I was under the impression that that was the traditional way games were planned. Heard it said that you have to be able to do one in order to effectively do the other. Some on here seem to feel that only running is important. A&M had 3 rbs who were used a lot last year. Sumlin addressed the issue of balance in play calling on several occasions
 

Surf Aggie

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Jan 7, 2013
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Next year's game will be great because it's at Kyle field and both teams have all summer to prepare for each other's offenses. We have lost a couple of assistant coaches (offensive coordinator, LB coach, Special Teams) to other jobs already, so it will be interesting to see how/if our offensive philosophy changes.
 

GulfCoastTider

Hall of Fame
Next year's game will be great because it's at Kyle field and both teams have all summer to prepare for each other's offenses. We have lost a couple of assistant coaches (offensive coordinator, LB coach, Special Teams) to other jobs already, so it will be interesting to see how/if our offensive philosophy changes.
Alabama's defensive brain trust learned a lot during our last meeting. I don't think you guys have to worry about preparing for the 2013 Alabama offense. Everyone knows what's coming.

What y'all will have do is deal with the 2013 defense, which now knows that it needs to rush five guys while disguising the over/under using a variety of nickel and dime packages.

It will be a different game and remember, Alabama was one play from winning the last one.
 

Florida Tom

All-American
Aug 15, 2011
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Kinda loke the scene from Hoosiers where Hackman has then measure the rim to the floor.

Its all football to me, however a lot of coaches are trying to show how smart they are rather than planning to win or even grow a program, see Jon Gruden.

What we as fans & the media lose sight of is it is very hard to win it all unless you have a great Defense. There have been a few exceptions like API but for the most part it's defense.

The thing CNS & CBP do/did is try to put together a good control offense & an attacking risk taking defense. Now a lot of teams like to take risk with the ball in hand, but our coaches seem to set it up based on weakness they see THAT game big difference.

I have not seen an offense as efficient as they last 2 at Alabama since the mid 70's.

With a Great D I think you will see a lot of balls in the air in 2013.
 

92tide

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Next year's game will be great because it's at Kyle field and both teams have all summer to prepare for each other's offenses. We have lost a couple of assistant coaches (offensive coordinator, LB coach, Special Teams) to other jobs already, so it will be interesting to see how/if our offensive philosophy changes.
as of right now my brother and i are planning on making the trip to college station for that game and i can't wait. i road tripped out for the infamous hurricane [non] game in 1988 and have been waiting a long time to make that trip up.
 

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