Gimmick offenses (Oregon, Texas A&M, etc...)

257WBY

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Sorry the Baylor "gimmick" offense destroyed Kansas St and gave Alabama a chance to win another title. That same gimmick offense only passed 13 times in scoring 49 points and destroying UCLA in the Holiday Bowl. Sumlin inherited that gimmick offense from Briles at Houston and turned Aggie into a winner in one year with the gimmick. The gimmick offense turns out Heisman QBs.
 

92tide

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Sorry the Baylor "gimmick" offense destroyed Kansas St and gave Alabama a chance to win another title. That same gimmick offense only passed 13 times in scoring 49 points and destroying UCLA in the Holiday Bowl. Sumlin inherited that gimmick offense from Briles at Houston and turned Aggie into a winner in one year with the gimmick. The gimmick offense turns out Heisman QBs.
baylor destroyed k state because k state started believing they were unbeatable. this happens to top teams every year in november.

manziels performance against bama in the first quarter and a weak field was what led to the heisman, not a and m's offense as much. regardless it was freak athletes ($cam, rg3, jm) and not offensive systems that won the heisman the past three years.
 

KrAzY3

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Sorry the Baylor "gimmick" offense destroyed Kansas St and gave Alabama a chance to win another title.
And? Baylor gave up 70 points in a game. You can't just point out the virtues. It's still a gimmick and the advantage will diminish over time. The wildcat was brought up, and was it a great idea to start using it? Sure, it was also a great idea for a lot of teams to stop using it as well. That's how gimmicks work.

My irritation is not with the offense, it is with people buying far too much into these offenses because they usually put up good numbers. No one wants to talk about what they look like when the other team figures them out, the only want to say how awesome it is when they are putting up video game numbers. Well, I guess the video game was broken when Oregon played Stanford.
 
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tnbamaman

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We are starting to see similar offenses in the SEC now the barn and UT will run a version of the spread as well. The key to make this work is a very athletic qb that can throw well too. As TN, Aub, and of course A&M begin to build their talent they will get better at it. During this time as Bama sees this offense 3-4 times/yr they will become better prepared for it while at the same time they still have to prepare for more traditional offenses like LSU and ARK. As long as Saban and Smart are the ones game planning for these situations and we continue to recruit the talent we get with the combo of size and speed I like our chances no matter who we play against. While there may be some growing pains over the next couple years this will only make the Tide D better and more prepared for all situations. The best defense can at times be a great running game that controls the clock. By the way Bama has that too.
 

MattinBama

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The main gimmick is that their casual fans & video game fans start believing that putting up 70 points on the Toledo School For Deaf & Blind Anorexic Children equals them to the task of putting up 70 points on the best defenses in the nation only to have their hopes and dreams shattered repeatedly when the truth of that showdown comes out.

The good thing is that the next year when they put up 72 points on the East Virginia School for Women Stuck in One Wheeled Wheel Chairs their casual fans yet again start believing the same thing.
 

Bamabuzzard

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And? Baylor gave up 70 points in a game. You can't just point out the virtues. It's still a gimmick and the advantage will diminish over time. The wildcat was brought up, and was it a great idea to start using it? Sure, it was also a great idea for a lot of teams to stop using it as well. That's how gimmicks work.

My irritation is not with the offense, it is with people buying far too much into these offenses because they usually put up good numbers. No one wants to talk about what they look like when the other team figures them out, the only want to say how awesome it is when they are putting up video game numbers. Well, I guess the video game was broken when Oregon played Stanford.
And LSU....
 

257WBY

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Ask TAMU and Baylor how things were before the offense got there. Oregon lost the same number of games Alabama did. Any team can have a bad day. Any offense would've been better than the crap ND put out there.
 

92tide

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Ask TAMU and Baylor how things were before the offense got there. Oregon lost the same number of games Alabama did. Any team can have a bad day. Any offense would've been better than the crap ND put out there.
alabama has three crystal balls and two sec championship trophies in the trophy case from the last four years and what 59 or 60 wins over the last 5 years. somehow we miraculously accomplished this with no gimmick offense :)
 

rizolltizide

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alabama has three crystal balls and two sec championship trophies in the trophy case from the last four years and what 59 or 60 wins over the last 5 years. somehow we miraculously accomplished this with no gimmick offense :)
You're just old and grumpy, cracka.
 

Rasputin

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The main gimmick is that their casual fans & video game fans start believing that putting up 70 points on the Toledo School For Deaf & Blind Anorexic Children equals them to the task of putting up 70 points on the best defenses in the nation only to have their hopes and dreams shattered repeatedly when the truth of that showdown comes out.

The good thing is that the next year when they put up 72 points on the East Virginia School for Women Stuck in One Wheeled Wheel Chairs their casual fans yet again start believing the same thing.
Easy there boy! I met my wife at that school!
 

Bamabuzzard

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Ask TAMU and Baylor how things were before the offense got there. Oregon lost the same number of games Alabama did. Any team can have a bad day. Any offense would've been better than the crap ND put out there.
Oh, no doubt. This type offense makes the game more "entertaining" for the main stream video game fan. But the offense in and of itself isn't any superior than what any non spread team runs. It has it's pro's and con's as well. Coaches and players make an offense successful or not. Not the other way around. And I think this is the mindset of a lot of people propping up offenses like Oregon's. That this type of offense is superior and dominant to other offenses.......and it's not. That you can plug a 90 year old man in a wheel chair at quarterback into this type offense and he'll be preparing his Heisman speech for the end of the season. It has it's flaws and it is not an unstoppable offense.

Again, IMO, the key to its success lies more in the tempo than scheme. Which tempo can be added to any offense. The greatest advantage(s) are created by running each play within 13 seconds or less of each other. Which is an actual goal of a high tempo offense. Any play that it takes longer than 13 seconds to get off reduces the likelihood of the play being successful.

The downside of this type offense is they produce bad defenses. Having a bad defense is just as fatal as having a bad offense. However, in our video game fan's mind they pay no attention to that. As long as the team's offense can look flashy and put up 50+ pts a game then overall they are a "great" team. But flip the tables and let a team be great on defense and have a subpar offense and that team is overall deemed "bad". Anybody remember 1992? I can use a more recent example of LSU dominating Oregon two years ago when they had that vaunted, "unstoppable" offense. Then again this season when Stanford, who runs more of an SEC style defense than anybody in the PAC 12, holds them to what, 14 pts? LSU forced Johnny Football into two int's and suppressed him pretty good. It took us one quarter of finally waking up to make the adjustments to hold them to eight pts the rest of the game. It's not the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 

MizzouMike

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I'm sure Stanford fans are looking at all of the attention Oregon is getting and thinking to themselves "hey guys... WE were Pac-12 champions! WE beat Oregon on the road. WE won the Rose Bowl." And I wouldn't blame them for that.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I'm sure Stanford fans are looking at all of the attention Oregon is getting and thinking to themselves "hey guys... WE were Pac-12 champions! WE beat Oregon on the road. WE won the Rose Bowl." And I wouldn't blame them for that.
It's because a lot of college football fans are video game fans. They relate greatness to offensive fire power. Defense is just an element of the game that must exist to showcase the offense. Yet more times than not teams like Stanford, Alabama, LSU, Florida etc. who actually put just as much stock in a defense as they do an offense. Seem to rise to the top more than the teams who view defense as a necessary evil.
 

Dallas4Bama

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Football is always evolving, always progressing. Everyone is looking for an edge to help them.

I read an interesting article about the spread offense with a QB who can throw well and run well (like Manziel, but there are others). The author's point was this: these dual weapon QBs have moved the audible forward in time, to include during the play.

The old audible was come to the line, QB reads the defense, and changes the play as necessary, snap the ball, go.

With the mobile QB and blocking (important skill here) WRs, it is come to the line, change the play if necessary, snap the ball, drop back, read the defense again, and change the play again (from a pass to a run), with the WRs and linemen adjusting responsibilities on the fly.

A real-time audible if you will, during the play.
Call it what you will, but its just plain old scrambling. It isn't taught and its not anything the coaches call. When you have a Michael Vick, Can Newton or Johnny Manziel it works well. A&M beat Alabama by doing things unconventionally. When the play broke down JM scrambled around long enough to find someone open. Call it real-time audible if you want but its chaos and anyone who tells you it isn't is lying.

Krazy has a good point because without that every once in a while scrambling talent the offense doesn't work. Unlike a more traditional offense like Alabama who can continue to plug players in and stay consistent. It's the difference in having a few good years and building a machine.

I'm not knocking A&M, I was a big advocate of them joining the conference and I have lots of aggies friends. I also don't think anyone in the country deserved the heisman more than Manziel. However, look at the success of the programs with super dual threat QB's after they graduated. The programs after McCoy, Vick, Tebow and Newton left all had to transition back to a more traditional style play.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Call it what you will, but its just plain old scrambling. It isn't taught and its not anything the coaches call. When you have a Michael Vick, Can Newton or Johnny Manziel it works well. A&M beat Alabama by doing things unconventionally. When the play broke down JM scrambled around long enough to find someone open. Call it real-time audible if you want but its chaos and anyone who tells you it isn't is lying.

Krazy has a good point because without that every once in a while scrambling talent the offense doesn't work. Unlike a more traditional offense like Alabama who can continue to plug players in and stay consistent. It's the difference in having a few good years and building a machine.

I'm not knocking A&M, I was a big advocate of them joining the conference and I have lots of aggies friends. I also don't think anyone in the country deserved the heisman more than Manziel. However, look at the success of the programs with super dual threat QB's after they graduated.
The programs after McCoy, Vick, Tebow and Newton left all had to transition back to a more traditional style play.
End of discussion ^^^^
 

bamafaninOhiO

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Call it what you will, but its just plain old scrambling. It isn't taught and its not anything the coaches call. When you have a Michael Vick, Can Newton or Johnny Manziel it works well. A&M beat Alabama by doing things unconventionally. When the play broke down JM scrambled around long enough to find someone open. Call it real-time audible if you want but its caos and anyone who tells you it isn't is lying. .

Krazy's point holds true because without that every once in a while scrambling talent the offense doesn't work. Unlike a more traditional offense like Alabama who can continue to plug players in and stay consistent.

I'm not knocking A&M, I was a big advocate of them joining the conference and I have lots of aggies friends. I also don't think anyone in the country deserved the heisman more than Manziel. However, look at the success of the programs with super dual threat QB's after they graduated. The programs after McCoy, Vick, Tebow and Newton left all had to transition back to a more traditional style play.
that is a true fact...the type of offense that is run in a spread is VERY dependant on a specific type of player, and the better the players are, the better that type of offense will work...
Cam newtons only come around once in a lifetime, but the spread can be very successful with the right coaching and players. But, no offense is unstoppable withg the right scheme, players and coaching.
 

92tide

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Call it what you will, but its just plain old scrambling. It isn't taught and its not anything the coaches call. When you have a Michael Vick, Can Newton or Johnny Manziel it works well. A&M beat Alabama by doing things unconventionally. When the play broke down JM scrambled around long enough to find someone open. Call it real-time audible if you want but its chaos and anyone who tells you it isn't is lying.

Krazy has a good point because without that every once in a while scrambling talent the offense doesn't work. Unlike a more traditional offense like Alabama who can continue to plug players in and stay consistent. It's the difference in having a few good years and building a machine.

I'm not knocking A&M, I was a big advocate of them joining the conference and I have lots of aggies friends. I also don't think anyone in the country deserved the heisman more than Manziel. However, look at the success of the programs with super dual threat QB's after they graduated. The programs after McCoy, Vick, Tebow and Newton left all had to transition back to a more traditional style play.

you may want to add boston college after doug flutie, and didn't BYU do a stint with a scrambler back in the 80s?
 

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