ATH Demetris Robertson Updates (Former 'Bama Commit)

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Matt0424

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Okay, here is a quick update for those still interested. I don't have the links to some of this, so as always TIFWIW. My thoughts after each statement.

A decision won't be coming until March. He has little choice, the deadline to sign is April 1. More on this later.

He has apparently not raised his SAT enough, as his test scores have returned, and plans to take the test again March 5. Unless he gets a favor from SAT to get rushed scores, usually you're waiting 6-8 weeks minimum to get them back. I have heard that Stanford is willing to push his application through expediently if he gets the scores.

He apparently wants to run track in college now as well.

His brother (Carlos) and Mother are handling his recruitment, and are pushing him to go to the best school academically. Mom likes Ga Tech, Brother likes Stanford, I don't know if Demetris gets a choice.

Even with recent cancelled visits, due in part to Basketball, he's still planning to visit UA and UGA as both schools are still interested. I don't buy this. I doubt he ever steps foot on either campus as a recruit again.

I am almost inclined to believe he'd essentially grey shirt to end up at Stanford if there were a chance. If he thinks he's got his score up enough on this last try, don't be surprised at a late enrollment.

That being said, I still hold that the kid ends up at ND. If that falls through, he'll stay in state I believe.

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jambama1

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Okay, here is a quick update for those still interested. I don't have the links to some of this, so as always TIFWIW. My thoughts after each statement.

A decision won't be coming until March. He has little choice, the deadline to sign is April 1. More on this later.

He has apparently not raised his SAT enough, as his test scores have returned, and plans to take the test again March 5. Unless he gets a favor from SAT to get rushed scores, usually you're waiting 6-8 weeks minimum to get them back. I have heard that Stanford is willing to push his application through expediently if he gets the scores.

He apparently wants to run track in college now as well.

His brother (Carlos) and Mother are handling his recruitment, and are pushing him to go to the best school academically. Mom likes Ga Tech, Brother likes Stanford, I don't know if Demetris gets a choice.

Even with recent cancelled visits, due in part to Basketball, he's still planning to visit UA and UGA as both schools are still interested. I don't buy this. I doubt he ever steps foot on either campus as a recruit again.

I am almost inclined to believe he'd essentially grey shirt to end up at Stanford if there were a chance. If he thinks he's got his score up enough on this last try, don't be surprised at a late enrollment.

That being said, I still hold that the kid ends up at ND. If that falls through, he'll stay in state I believe.

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Thats not entirely true. UGA had a player accept a Scholarship without signing by April 1st. I wont get into another debate about academic prestige. Companies sed recruiters to certain schools and not others that is a fact. I hope he gets into Stanford because that seems to be what he wants as well.
 

KrAzY3

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Brother says if it were just football, he'd sign with us.

Here.
The simple truth is his best chance at being a millionaire is football and his best chance at being a millionaire in football is Alabama. It is a shame that he's being pushed to make what is arguably not the best professional choice. Sometimes advice even with the best of intentions is still bad advice.

The sad thing is he wants to play football for Alabama. He's top 50 coming out of high school at something, that's way more special than getting into Stanford. Some advice he's getting, even from here is misguided. Yes, he should get a college degree from a respectable university, in a field that makes sense in terms of a career. Absolutely, but he should be focused on what he's best at. After he has a few million dollars he won't have to worry about resume snobs when he embarks on a different professional career.
 
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TiderJack

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The simple truth is his best chance at being a millionaire is football and his best chance at being a millionaire in football is Alabama. It is a shame that he's being pushed to make what is arguably not the best professional choice. Sometimes advice even with the best of intentions is still bad advice.

The sad thing is he wants to play football for Alabama. He's top 50 coming out of high school at something, that's way more special than getting into Stanford. Some advice he's getting, even from here is misguided. Yes, he should get a college degree from a respectable university, in a field that makes sense in terms of a career. Absolutely, but he should be focused on what he's best at. After he has a few million dollars he won't have to worry about resume snobs when he embarks on a different professional career.
I agree his best choice to of being a millionaire is coming to Bama but what if he blows out a knee and never plays in the NFL. While a Bama degree is a very good degree it is not a Stanford degree. When you talk about a 30-40 year professional career the difference in pay between the 2 degrees is millions of dollars. Stanford is putting guys in the NFL also. Can't blame the guy for trying to get into Stanford.
 

RTR91

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The simple truth is his best chance at being a millionaire is football and his best chance at being a millionaire in football is Alabama. It is a shame that he's being pushed to make what is arguably not the best professional choice. Sometimes advice even with the best of intentions is still bad advice.

The sad thing is he wants to play football for Alabama. He's top 50 coming out of high school at something, that's way more special than getting into Stanford. Some advice he's getting, even from here is misguided. Yes, he should get a college degree from a respectable university, in a field that makes sense in terms of a career. Absolutely, but he should be focused on what he's best at. After he has a few million dollars he won't have to worry about resume snobs when he embarks on a different professional career.
Here are a few recruits since 2010 that signed with Alabama ranked by Rivals as a top 50 player:

Dee Hart
Jeoffrey Pagan
Brent Calloway
Eddie Williams

Hootie Jones and Ronnie Clark are two fortunate guys that still have time to do something.

Hart didn't live up to the hype because of injuries.

Pagan wasn't a bust by any means. He didn't become a star like one might expect from the #42 player in the nation.

Calloway and Williams blew their chances by being stupid.

Of course, I'm not saying Demetris is not going to be a stud or a solid player.
 

knowledge

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You only get four years to play college football. You have your entire life to go to school. He can play football at Alabama and get a nationally marketable degree. He can always get another degree at Stanford later if that is something he wants.
 

KrAzY3

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Here are a few recruits since 2010 that signed with Alabama ranked by Rivals as a top 50 player:

Dee Hart
Jeoffrey Pagan
Brent Calloway
Eddie Williams

Hootie Jones and Ronnie Clark are two fortunate guys that still have time to do something.

Hart didn't live up to the hype because of injuries.

Pagan wasn't a bust by any means. He didn't become a star like one might expect from the #42 player in the nation.

Calloway and Williams blew their chances by being stupid.

Of course, I'm not saying Demetris is not going to be a stud or a solid player.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, because you obviously left out many other top players (Landon Collins, TJ Yeldon, Ha Ha, Dee Milliner, Chance Warmack, DJ Fluker, Trent Richardson, etc, etc, etc...) I never said it was a sure thing, I said Alabama was the best place for him to go. I've seen analysis that says Alabama has one of the highest ratios of turning 5 star players into NFL draftees and even first round draft picks. Nothing is a sure thing, just like going to Stanford doesn't insure professional success. However, a 5 star going to Alabama has a better shot at the NFL than going to many other schools and that's verifiable fact.

What exactly is going on here? Why does it seem like I've seen more people say he should go to Stanford than Alabama? People want to completely ignore the analysis that says it's not the college but the intelligence of the individual that matter most in terms of a non-sports profession, but they darn sure want to provide 101 excuses not to go to Alabama. It's just bizarre, kind of like welcoming a new recruit by saying he won't get playing time.
You only get four years to play college football. You have your entire life to go to school. He can play football at Alabama and get a nationally marketable degree. He can always get another degree at Stanford later if that is something he wants.
We even had a guy here say don't play football at all if he can get into Stanford. Overlooking the fact of course that the only way he could ever get into Stanford was by playing football. Don't confuse Alabama fans with the facts of why he should come to Alabama, for some reason that's not going over well right now.

If I was recruiting for another school, you better believe I'd be like look, even Alabama fans say you shouldn't go to Alabama! And as far fetched as that sounds, yes posts on this forum have been used by recruiters... The guy wants to play football at Alabama, but he's got all these people, who honestly don't know what the heck they are talking about trying to convince him otherwise. Good job, that side appears it will win.
 
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RTR91

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I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, because you obviously left out many other top players. I never said it was a sure thing, I said Alabama was the best place for him to go. I've seen analysis that says Alabama has one of the highest ratios of turning 5 star players into NFL draftees and even first round draft picks. Nothing is a sure thing, just like going to Stanford doesn't insure professional success. However, a 5 star going to Alabama has a better shot at the NFL than going to many other schools and that's verifiable fact.

What exactly is going on here? Why all the recruiting for Stanford? People want to completely ignore the analysis that says it's not the college but the intelligence of the individual that matter most in terms of a non-sports profession, but they darn sure want to provide 101 excuses not to go to Alabama. It's just bizarre, kind of like welcoming a new recruit by saying he won't get playing time. C'mon man.


We even had a guy here say don't play football at all if he can get into Stanford. Overlooking the fact of course that the only way he could ever get into Stanford was by playing football. Don't confuse Alabama fans with the facts of why he should come to Alabama, for some reason that's not going over well right now.

If I was recruiting for another school, you better believe I'd be like look, even Alabama fans say you shouldn't go to Alabama! And as far fetched as that sounds, yes posts on this forum have been used by recruiters...
I was simply pointing out being ranked in the top 50 doesn't mean success in college is a sure thing.


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KrAzY3

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I was simply pointing out being ranked in the top 50 doesn't mean success in college is a sure thing.
That's a given, no school has a 100% success rate with those types of guys nor will that ever be the case.

I'm not sure how many ways this can be said though, but when someone chooses a college they have to focus on what they are best at and their professional goals. This guy is one of the most talented in football, that's what he's best at and a professional career is a very realistic possibility. That has to be his primary focus. A post-football career is important as well, he should choose his major carefully and apply himself. I simply haven't seen one iota of proof that says he'd actually be better off financially by choosing any other college, yet I've seen suggestion after suggestion that he do just that. Sorry if my remarks appear pointed entirely at you, I'm just flummoxed by the abundance of posts that do everything but point out the rather obvious and readily apparent benefits of his attending Alabama. I mean heck, your post pointing out top 50 players at Alabama that didn't succeed even got a like. What is there to like about that?
 
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Matt0424

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That's a given, no school has a 100% success rate with those types of guys nor will that ever be the case.

I'm not sure how many ways this can be said though, but when someone chooses a college they have to focus on what they are best at and their professional goals. This guy is one of the most talented in football, that's what he's best at and a professional career is a very realistic possibility. That has to be his primary focus. A post-football career is important as well, he should choose his major carefully and apply himself. I simply haven't seen one iota of proof that says he'd actually be better off financially by choosing any other college, yet I've seen suggestion after suggestion that he do just that. Sorry if my remarks appear pointed entirely at you, I'm just flummoxed by the abundance of posts that do everything but point out the rather obvious and readily apparent benefits of his attending Alabama. I mean heck, your post pointing out top 50 players at Alabama that didn't succeed even got a like. What is there to like about that?
The like is that you're acting like playing football at Alabama is the be all that ends all. It's not. It's great, yes, but obviously to some people they want to be more than football players, and want the best education possible. Football isn't going to carry most players for the rest of their lives. As much as I love UA, Stanford is a better school. If he wants a degree from one the best public or private universities in the country, then good for him. Even if he IS successful at football in college, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. I'm sorry some of us have different opinions on things.

And if someone wants to use this in recruiting, so be it, but if he were to ask my opinion is would tell him to hold out for Stanford if that's what his heart desired.

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B1GTide

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Setting aside his educational goals, and he seems to have a few, a player of his caliber will develop into an NFL talent almost anywhere that he attends college. Some schools clearly do a better job of developing players. Some kids need less development.

If Alabama offers an advantage over other schools right now, I would say that it is in the area of developing teenage kids into young men. Everyone focuses on The Process as if it was about football - but it is not. The Process is about life. The Process is what distinguishes Saban from other coaches, though other coaches are catching on. Teach these young men the value of hard work and dedication and let that carry them anywhere they want to go.

If this young man wants to go to Stanford, his football skill-set will be developed and he will get a great education. Same can be said at Alabama or Georgia. Assuming he is not injured he will probably see the NFL by attending any of these schools. What he does when he gets there is up to him. But that is when The Process matters most. That is when you have the rest of your life in front of you and no one to tell you what to do. That is when you need to be a man, and if you haven't developed those skills yet your chances of having long term success diminish considerably.
 

bama579

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Setting aside his educational goals, and he seems to have a few, a player of his caliber will develop into an NFL talent almost anywhere that he attends college. Some schools clearly do a better job of developing players. Some kids need less development.

If Alabama offers an advantage over other schools right now, I would say that it is in the area of developing teenage kids into young men. Everyone focuses on The Process as if it was about football - but it is not. The Process is about life. The Process is what distinguishes Saban from other coaches, though other coaches are catching on. Teach these young men the value of hard work and dedication and let that carry them anywhere they want to go.

If this young man wants to go to Stanford, his football skill-set will be developed and he will get a great education. Same can be said at Alabama or Georgia. Assuming he is not injured he will probably see the NFL by attending any of these schools. What he does when he gets there is up to him. But that is when The Process matters most. That is when you have the rest of your life in front of you and no one to tell you what to do. That is when you need to be a man, and if you haven't developed those skills yet your chances of having long term success diminish considerably.
Outstanding post. Tip o' the hat to you for it.
 
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KrAzY3

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The like is that you're acting like playing football at Alabama is the be all that ends all.
I don't want to waste too much time being defensive, but my exact words were: "his best chance at being a millionaire in football is Alabama.". It might not seem like it, but I usually have data to back up assertions I make on this forum. Be it when I discuss quarterbacks, expansion, special teams, or yes, recruiting. I have seen data to indicate that Alabama is at the top tier in terms of converting 5 star talent to NFL talent. That's as I said earlier, verifiable fact. I do hope no athlete bets everything on the NFL though, they need to focus on getting their degree and making it something meaningful in a future profession.

As much as I love UA, Stanford is a better school. If he wants a degree from one the best public or private universities in the country, then good for him. Even if he IS successful at football in college, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. I'm sorry some of us have different opinions on things.

And if someone wants to use this in recruiting, so be it, but if he were to ask my opinion is would tell him to hold out for Stanford if that's what his heart desired.
I suppose I should point out that his heart's desire is to play football for Alabama. He committed to Alabama, he wants to play football for Alabama, but he has people that have talked him out of it apparently. So there's that.

Beyond that though, it's not cookie cutter. I posted earlier that the data shows that provided the individuals are on the same level in terms of how they test, it doesn't matter professionally if you go to a top tier college or not. I didn't elaborate at length as to why that's the case. Now, obviously if someone has two colleges to choose from, they are unlikely to choose the one that doesn't offer what they need. Where Stanford shines is that they offer the students so much, but provided another college (accredited with a reasonable amount of resources of course) offers the classes and major that a particular student wants, the truth is the difference becomes negligible. An easy way to explain that is if someone takes History of Western Civilization from Stanford or from Alabama, it isn't as though they are getting substantially more knowledge merely from taking that class at Stanford. That's the part that so many people overlook. Sure, just like MIT offers some things that Stanford doesn't offer, Stanford offers some things that Alabama doesn't. However, I reiterate that providing Alabama provides the classes he wants, the end result would be a negligible difference. Remember, you can't teach intelligence. The biggest reason a recruiter would send someone to Stanford or MIT and not Alabama is merely because those institutions have already done some of the work of weeding out some types of students and gathering other types. Once someone embarks on a career, their professional expertise will matter far more than where they graduated from.

From what I've seen of where his recruiting went "wrong" is that someone came along and said he should just prioritize colleges by the most prestigious and he's done that. I haven't seen any real indication that he wanted to go to Stanford or Notre Dame because of particular classes they offered but rather just because they are better "brands" and one should never buy something on the basis of brand alone. Also, to be clear I don't think most comments or threads have an impact on recruiting. I was just trying to point out that some do. For my part I'd tell him to go where he wants to go, not where he's being told to go.

Setting aside his educational goals, and he seems to have a few, a player of his caliber will develop into an NFL talent almost anywhere that he attends college. Some schools clearly do a better job of developing players. Some kids need less development.

If Alabama offers an advantage over other schools right now, I would say that it is in the area of developing teenage kids into young men. Everyone focuses on The Process as if it was about football - but it is not. The Process is about life. The Process is what distinguishes Saban from other coaches, though other coaches are catching on. Teach these young men the value of hard work and dedication and let that carry them anywhere they want to go.

If this young man wants to go to Stanford, his football skill-set will be developed and he will get a great education. Same can be said at Alabama or Georgia. Assuming he is not injured he will probably see the NFL by attending any of these schools. What he does when he gets there is up to him. But that is when The Process matters most. That is when you have the rest of your life in front of you and no one to tell you what to do. That is when you need to be a man, and if you haven't developed those skills yet your chances of having long term success diminish considerably.
Well reasoned post and a lot of what I'm going to say isn't a direct response to you. I've seen people put forth the notion that if they're good enough they're can't miss, but as RTR noted, can't miss still misses sometimes. Someone alluded to this earlier and I didn't reply because I was trying to avoid back and forth but we're at the point now that we might as well get down to it.

Intelligence can not be taught. At least not in a meaningful way. In terms of academic studies, what they are mostly doing is teaching knowledge, which combines with intelligence to form skill. Intelligence is such a huge part of the equation though, and while it is possible to diminish intelligence, there's not much that can be done to increase it. That is the biggest reason why people that could get into Ivy League colleges but chose not to, did not suffer in their professional lives. The biggest thing is intelligence and it doesn't matter nearly as much where someone comes by the knowledge to succeed in life as long as they gain it somehow.

Why is Alabama different? Why then do I say while Ivy League doesn't matter much, Alabama does? Well, for one we are talking about a much more elite group of people when we are talking about 5 star athletes. The Ivy League has thousands of freshman every single year, there are only a handful of 5 star football recruits every year. Conversely, many professional fields offer hundreds of thousands of jobs if not millions. For instance there are almost 1 million doctors in the United States. There are only 1,696 NFL players who make almost 2 million per year on average. So, when we talk about college football at the highest level, we are talking about something far more elite and specialized than almost anything the Ivy League deals with.

That is not the biggest factor though. How is it that Alabama has a better conversion rate for 5 star players? Better discipline and yes better focus on academics is part of it (part of the process one could say). Alabama has one of the best graduations rates of any FBS program, which is one reason I scoff at the idea that going there is to the academic detriment of a student. Wasn't North Carolina supposed to have better academics? That isn't the main factor either though.

In terms of most professionals, the simple intelligence plus knowledge equals skill equation is going to be the main factor. In football though, there's an area that can be changed and that is physical ability. Yes, it relies heavily on natural ability, but unlike relatively static intelligence, a player can be trained to run faster, jump higher, etc... This is another area in which Alabama excels, their athletes have some of the best trainers and equipment possible at their disposal.

The sum of this is a noticeable difference in terms of converting these guys to the NFL. It's not 100%, but for instance Alabama has a better ratio of doing this than Florida. Even those who dismiss my assertions about Ivy League educational benefits being exaggerated, can certainly see the logic to why Alabama's team of professionals can do a better job of developing NFL talent than most schools.

I hope I've completely covered it this time. There's a lot more data that could be brought into the discussion but I think that the explanation suffices. I applaud anyone who can get into a prestigious institution. I don't blame anyone for going to Stanford, I can certainly understand why someone would want to go there, or to Notre Dame, etc... but I would hope everyone would look beyond merely the academic rankings of an institution and look at how what they offer (and cost) serves their goals in life.
 
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knowledge

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In most cases, a 4.0 at Alabama is better than a 3.0 from Stanford in an equivalent undergraduate degree program (graduate school is different). In fact, I would recommend to someone that wanted to attend an "academically elite" grad school that they might want to ring up that undergraduate 4.0 at a quality public school first. Schools like Stanford are filled with former valedictorians, national merit scholars and class presidents. Super competitive people that are sometimes driven to suicide over a bad grade (attrition from enrollment to graduation is very low because every knows why they are there, and most people accepted as freshmen graduate). Public schools have a lot of people in 100 and 200 level classes that don't know why they are there, other than it is what happens after high school (attrition from enrollment to graduation is quite high because a lot of people get distracted and fail out). An intelligent person can make A's in most public undergraduate degree programs by handling their basic school business (go to class, take notes, perform assignments, show up to tests prepared). You can do all that at Stanford and have that raw 70% test score curved down to an F. So, if you want to earn a competitive degree with a meaningful GPA while playing football Alabama is a no-brainer. IMHO, the only scenario that favors Stanford, for an athlete, is one in which you are without professional prospects, but talented enough to leverage a sport into free admission to an academically elite school, and still only if you feel that you can thrive academically. I get the allure of a school that can claim elite status in both sports and academics (Stanford is such a school) but I think that is all it is, an idea. It doesn't translate practically. Even if a person is gifted enough both athletically and academically, hard to max out on both of those at the same time. Of course, I am sure that Stanford could spin this as "why do you want to struggle to compete with those kids on Alabama's football team?" Interesting stuff. Good luck to the kid making his decision. He has a lot of good things going for him.
 

Matt0424

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http://www.businessinsider.com/universities-with-most-billionaire-undergraduate-alumni-2014-9

https://www.timeshighereducation.co...es-for-producing-millionaires/2008749.article

Don't tell me education is negligible. It's just not true. If that's the case, playing football at Alabama is negligible because at the end of this past season Stanford had 28 guys on active NFL rosters and Alabama had 36.

I would tell 9/10 recruits to go to UA over any other school. If you have the desire to go to the #1 school in the country (It passed MIT this past year per Business Insider ) which is also a top 10 football school, then do it. If you don't, then fine. Alabama is one of the best schools in the country.

Trying to downgrade a great school to sell your own is something the Barners do, not something I'm willing to do.

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