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  1. #79
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Al A Bama's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003TIDE View Post
    Has nothing to so with that and everything to do with the face last mile providers aren't playing nice with backbone ISPs at the peering points. Something has to be done. This is one way. Otherwise Telco's will extort businesses to get in the "fast lane" whatever that means to them.
    Have you seen the Bill that will be signed into Law by the POTUS? Is it going to be like the Affordable Care Act where you will need to read it after it's signed into law to find out what's in it. Hopefully, nothing will happen before January 3, 2015.
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give me Liberty, or give me Death!" Patrick Henry

  2. #80
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    glad you have a choice, my only choice is to move

    now understand that technically I have "broadband" options but only because the ISP monopolies have loosened the definition of "broadband" through their lobbying efforts to include things like DSL and Wireless internet as Broadband. In my line of work I need 2 way HD Video for conference calling, IP Phones, dedicated VPN tunnels and always on full bandwidth in order for all of this to function properly. That gives me exactly 1 choice. Comcast. A choice that when I made it was "unlimited" and has recently redefined unlimited to mean 300GB of Data a month which I am already exceeding. Why do they get to redefine this again? Oh I know why because there is no oversight and because I have no choice.

    You want to know why they changed the definition of Broadband? So they can claim they are not a monopoly because with their definition in place I technically have a choice, even though I don't.
    Yeah, your situation pretty much sucks. I'm sorry about that.
    What are the barriers to entry (besides legal challenges which can be dealt with via legislation) for other ISPs to get into that market, which would seem to be ripe for competition?
    Is it just laying the cables? Would "utiliziting" the cables solve that problem and leave ISPs to compete?
    I am not trying to be a smart aleck here. You obviously have more expertise in the technology than I do.

  3. #81
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Yeah, your situation pretty much sucks. I'm sorry about that.
    What are the barriers to entry (besides legal challenges which can be dealt with via legislation) for other ISPs to get into that market, which would seem to be ripe for competition?
    Is it just laying the cables? Would "utiliziting" the cables solve that problem and leave ISPs to compete?
    I am not trying to be a smart aleck here. You obviously have more expertise in the technology than I do.
    remember back on page 1 where I referenced a "last mile" problem? That's the barrier. The last mile, is the stretch however long, that makes it physically to your house. Right now Comcast is the only one with a pipe large enough with current technology. Wireless, DSL, AT&T "fiber" (in quote because it isn't really fiber) are all options, and all classified as "broadband" legally but none are enough.

    The funny thing here is that although I am an outlier in 2014, the rest of you are catching up, whether you realize it or not you will be using my amounts of data soon enough (and I'll likely double that ) All that means is that this problem I am having, you will too it's just a matter of time.

  4. #82
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tidewater's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    remember back on page 1 where I referenced a "last mile" problem? That's the barrier. The last mile, is the stretch however long, that makes it physically to your house. Right now Comcast is the only one with a pipe large enough with current technology. Wireless, DSL, AT&T "fiber" (in quote because it isn't really fiber) are all options, and all classified as "broadband" legally but none are enough.
    Gotcha. My house is about 1.6 miles from nTelos (my ISP). So, you're saying that nTelos owns the pipe that connects my house to their hub? Also, if some other ISP wants to compete for my business, that ISP must lay its own pipe from their hub to my house? I can see how this would get expensive for someone in the country. Comcast was an option (but I opted to go with a cheaper ISP, just on principle). Does that mean Comcast has a parallel cable leading to my house? My old boss lived way out in the county, and the only option he had was Hughes Net (via satellite). Connection speed was slow and it was expensive.
    The funny thing here is that although I am an outlier in 2014, the rest of you are catching up, whether you realize it or not you will be using my amounts of data soon enough (and I'll likely double that ) All that means is that this problem I am having, you will too it's just a matter of time.
    I'm not sure if I will ever get to the point you now occupy, but point taken.

  5. #83
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    The funny thing here is that although I am an outlier in 2014, the rest of you are catching up, whether you realize it or not you will be using my amounts of data soon enough (and I'll likely double that ) All that means is that this problem I am having, you will too it's just a matter of time.
    So, the infrastructure has remained substantially unchanged since the inception of the Internet?

  6. #84
    BamaNation Hall of Fame TideMom2Boys's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by dWarriors88 View Post
    No, if Internet were to be classified as a utility, you would have more options as to who you could pick as your ISP. Okay so as it is now, Comcast has their infrastructure in place in town A, Cox has town b 400 miles away. If Cox wanted to serve the people of town A, they would need to install their own infrastructure, wires, cables etc side by side with Comcast. Which is incredibly expensive and inefficient. Were internet become a utility, Cox could operate within comcast's infrastructure. And so could Time Warner, or AttUverse, or whoever. They would simply pay a fee to whomever had ownership of said infrastructure. So what this does is gives consumers more options in who they want for their ISP, which will create price wars and companies will start offering higher speeds for cheaper rates. Hopefully. That's the idea anyways, it may work out like a gentlemen's agreement where they all keep their packages around he same price, but that remains to be seen. It also prevents the FCC from creating the fast lanes. Which Jon does a great job of explaining on the last page.

    all that said, I believe we will start to see the beginning of a technological growth spurt if they allowed us consumers true high speed data transfers like South Korea just started doing. I believe they are getting ready to allow 10Gb/s broadband. You guys have no idea the advancement capabilities we could be looking at if we had that kind of speed without limits.

    Believe it or not, hollywood has a lot to do with this too. They don't want their movies and music being pirated, and if we had GB/s broadband, you could download a whole movie in a blink of an eye.


    Ok, thanks for the explanation.
    Roll Tide

  7. #85
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    So, the infrastructure has remained substantially unchanged since the inception of the Internet?
    For the most part yes. Companies have an issue with trying to push more and more data over cables that can't support it. Coax and twisted pair have been in the ground at most houses that can get phone or cable for some time. ISPs will lay new cable to the neighborhood, often fiber, then use the existing cabling to cover that last mile.

    Technologies such as DSL variants were able to make use of the phone wiring through digital and the cable companies have managed to cram more data down coax.

    That isn't to say that the parts getting the signal to your neighborhood or general area haven't changed, just that that last mile has remained relatively stagnant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    We're going to have insurance for everybody, there was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better. Source
    Quote Originally Posted by Obama
    If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Source
    Can you guess which quote branded a president as a habitual liar?

  8. #86
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Al A Bama View Post
    Have you seen the Bill that will be signed into Law by the POTUS? Is it going to be like the Affordable Care Act where you will need to read it after it's signed into law to find out what's in it. Hopefully, nothing will happen before January 3, 2015.
    If I am not mistaken there is no law being introduced. He made it known that he prefers reclassification and the FCC chairman has the last say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    We're going to have insurance for everybody, there was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better. Source
    Quote Originally Posted by Obama
    If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Source
    Can you guess which quote branded a president as a habitual liar?

  9. #87
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Tidewater View Post
    Gotcha. My house is about 1.6 miles from nTelos (my ISP). So, you're saying that nTelos owns the pipe that connects my house to their hub? Also, if some other ISP wants to compete for my business, that ISP must lay its own pipe from their hub to my house? I can see how this would get expensive for someone in the country. Comcast was an option (but I opted to go with a cheaper ISP, just on principle). Does that mean Comcast has a parallel cable leading to my house? My old boss lived way out in the county, and the only option he had was Hughes Net (via satellite). Connection speed was slow and it was expensive.

    I'm not sure if I will ever get to the point you now occupy, but point taken.
    not familiar with nTelos, google only gets me to nTelos wireless, wikipedia makes some reference to wired plans that appear to be DSL in really limited markets

    DSL uses your existing telephone lines to deliver digital bits over the existing old copper telephone network. DSL can be great if all the stars are aligned (you are close to the provider, your home phone system is in good repair and the local network has been well maintained)

    Wireless uses the PCM Cell Phone network to do the same and is typically really expensive and very limited. Plans start at 10GB a month! they often proclaim, I'd burn through that in a day.

    Comcast likely already has a line run to your house, in fact I am certain they do since you had their service at one point. They use the existing cable network often run by someone else who no longer exists that installed it in the late 70's to the 80's. My junction box has a MediaOne sticker on it, that was apparently a division of US West that through a series of acquisitions and bankruptcies came to be owned by Comcast.

    You could also do hughes or dishnet. I had dishnet years ago and it was awful. It has become better (I have a buddy in the country with it) but it's far too laggy for ip phones or video calls

    Long way to answer your question, but yes as it stands right now the way to get a new provider is to run a new physical line (as google is doing with fiber in some very lucky markets) or do some wireless or satellite based service.
    Last edited by Jon; November 11th, 2014 at 10:06 PM.

  10. #88
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles15 View Post
    http://fedscoop.com/fcc-net-neutrali...i-section-706/

    doesnt go go into details but there are 3 basic schools of thought: title II, section 706, or a hybrid regulation model. Each has strengths and weaknesses. To me, 706 seems the lesser of the evils
    I see how 706 could be flexed to make the FCC have the power. It seems that it would take some regulatory/linguistic gymnastics though. However I am willing to acquiesce that if the FCC was willing to try 706 with the express declaration that they will revert to title II if it doesn't work might be a good way. I'm a bit concerned though that the following administration/chairman might not be willing to listen to the publics desires and not follow through with the nuclear option.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    We're going to have insurance for everybody, there was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better. Source
    Quote Originally Posted by Obama
    If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Source
    Can you guess which quote branded a president as a habitual liar?

  11. #89
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    If I am not mistaken there is no law being introduced. He made it known that he prefers reclassification and the FCC chairman has the last say.
    correct

    the FCC has basically already said "we'll add his comments to the pile" making the president exactly like the rest of us that signed the petition

  12. #90
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    For the most part yes. Companies have an issue with trying to push more and more data over cables that can't support it. Coax and twisted pair have been in the ground at most houses that can get phone or cable for some time. ISPs will lay new cable to the neighborhood, often fiber, then use the existing cabling to cover that last mile.

    Technologies such as DSL variants were able to make use of the phone wiring through digital and the cable companies have managed to cram more data down coax.

    That isn't to say that the parts getting the signal to your neighborhood or general area haven't changed, just that that last mile has remained relatively stagnant.
    Yet those twisted pair cables have gone from carrying 10mbps to 10gbps inside homes and businesses. Twisted pairs to phone/ADSL have gone from really dial-up speed slower than 56kbps to as high as 24mbps with speeds exceeding 100mbps being developed. Uverse claims up to 45mbps, though I hate Uverse for its poor service andnot living up to its promises. Cable has gone from no internet available to 100mbps+ in many areas.
    As demand has grown the supply of speed/bandwidth hasn't lagged far behind. There is still some room theoretically for growth in existing infrastructures as newer methods of using them are developed.
    While fiber is great, it is currently impractical from a cost standpoint, at least in the boonies where I live. I would be happy with reliable service higher than the 12mbps I can get now. When the kids are gaming watching netflix and surfing can get a little dicey at times, so the extra cushion would be appreciated (and was when it worked, which it did not half the time, thus the fall back to 12).
    I'd like more choice as I hate Uverse and would leave them in a heartbeat. I do not think reclassification will make 1 iota of difference in speed or choice and may actually hamper it. With 4k broadcasting possibly gaining steam over the next few years that increased bandwidth/speed will be even more important.
    I'd like to know that when I pay for internet access that I have equal access to any content provider a that is what I intend to pay for, as do most Americans. I want someone to tell the ISP's "you can't short-change your customer by limiting the internet they pay for to those content providers you favor", but I don't want government screwing things up like the development and implementation of faster services.
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

    The TideFan formerly known as NationalTitles16, NationalTitles15, NationalTitles14, NationalTitles13, and NationalTitles12.

  13. #91
    BamaNation All-American dWarriors88's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Jon, this seems to be an area of expertise for you. How do you see the future of the web?

    I get the feeling that the internet as we knew it for. 1995-2004ish will be looked at as sort of the 'wild wild west'. With P2P sharing, FTP Sharing, and sites like the Warez, and Mega going away, it seems like internet as we know it will be much more straight forward and with limited options and less operable features and uses. Sure websites will get more fancy and advanced, but I feel like Operating Systems in general are being programmed and built to 'do less'. Perhaps as an effort to curb novice hacking? any thoughts, or is this nonsensical?

    I say novice hackers because there will always be some smart guys out thee that can make a computer do whatever they want. But obviously that would require a higher skill, thus no longer being a novice.
    Last edited by dWarriors88; November 11th, 2014 at 11:11 PM.
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