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  1. #92
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by dWarriors88 View Post
    Jon, this seems to be an area of expertise for you. How do you see the future of the web?

    I get the feeling that the internet as we knew it for. 1995-2004ish will be looked at as sort of the 'wild wild west'. With P2P sharing, FTP Sharing, and sites like the Warez, and Mega going away, it seems like internet as we know it will be much more straight forward and with limited options and less operable features and uses. Sure websites will get more fancy and advanced, but I feel like Operating Systems in General are being programmed and built to 'do less'. Perhaps as an effort to curb novice hacking? any thoughts, or is this nonsensical?
    I'm not Jon and even less likely to be mistaken for an expert, but in a number of ways you are right. OS's and even hardware are being built to protect IP (intellectual property) and even though open source OS's like Linux bring more openness to the ecosystem even they will be limited by both some hardware tricks and limited adoption by consumers. Innovation seems to be stifled at times and yet devices like Chrome Cast are opening new doors. The wild west days are long gone and legitimate services have and will continue to replace them. Netflix is producing "TV" shows that are high quality. The "cloud" is replacing much of what has been done locally on your own computer/device. We are seeing a lot of change. Some is good. Some is not as good. Few true innovations are mixed with a lot of poor and stale attempts to offer new advancements. Same as it ever was.
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

    The TideFan formerly known as NationalTitles16, NationalTitles15, NationalTitles14, NationalTitles13, and NationalTitles12.

  2. #93
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles15 View Post
    Yet those twisted pair cables have gone from carrying 10mbps to 10gbps inside homes and businesses. Twisted pairs to phone/ADSL have gone from really dial-up speed slower than 56kbps to as high as 24mbps with speeds exceeding 100mbps being developed. Uverse claims up to 45mbps, though I hate Uverse for its poor service andnot living up to its promises. Cable has gone from no internet available to 100mbps+ in many areas.
    As demand has grown the supply of speed/bandwidth hasn't lagged far behind. There is still some room theoretically for growth in existing infrastructures as newer methods of using them are developed.
    While fiber is great, it is currently impractical from a cost standpoint, at least in the boonies where I live. I would be happy with reliable service higher than the 12mbps I can get now. When the kids are gaming watching netflix and surfing can get a little dicey at times, so the extra cushion would be appreciated (and was when it worked, which it did not half the time, thus the fall back to 12).
    I'd like more choice as I hate Uverse and would leave them in a heartbeat. I do not think reclassification will make 1 iota of difference in speed or choice and may actually hamper it. With 4k broadcasting possibly gaining steam over the next few years that increased bandwidth/speed will be even more important.
    I'd like to know that when I pay for internet access that I have equal access to any content provider a that is what I intend to pay for, as do most Americans. I want someone to tell the ISP's "you can't short-change your customer by limiting the internet they pay for to those content providers you favor", but I don't want government screwing things up like the development and implementation of faster services.
    More information on 706 vs reclassification. http://arstechnica.com/business/2014...le-ii-part/#p3

    Quote Originally Posted by Ars Technica Article
    "This is not game playing or sophistry on our part. We believe in having strong and enforceable Open Internet rules. We just believe that the courts have laid out a clear legal path to accomplishing that result under Section 706 which will enable the country to avoid the adverse investment and innovation impacts of Title II," Cohen wrote. "Being for net neutrality and against Title II is completely consistent. People can be for net neutrality and against Title II—that simply represents agreement on the why, but not the how."

    That isn't exactly how the courts saw it when Verizon sued over the FCC's previous net neutrality rules, though. A federal appeals court opinion agreed that Section 706 lets the FCC "promulgate rules governing broadband providers’ treatment of Internet traffic." But there's only so far the FCC can go without reclassifying broadband as a Title II or "common carrier" service. The court struck down the FCC's prohibitions on blocking and discrimination by Internet service providers because they amount to utility or common carrier rules being imposed upon companies that haven't been classified as common carriers.

    To impose such rules, the FCC has to either use Title II or prove that the rules are not common carrier obligations. In the Verizon case, the FCC "failed to establish that the anti-discrimination and anti-blocking rules do not impose per se common carrier obligations," the court said.

    So while Comcast argues that Section 706 provides the FCC all the authority it needs, the court decision gives the FCC and Obama reason to believe that Title II is what's really necessary.
    So they have already attempted to use 706 to keep cable companies from blocking or discriminating, essentially the fast lanes you hear about, and the courts blocked it saying that 706 doesn't give that power without the internet being classified as a common carrier. So if you don't want fast lanes, the only way to guarantee that the FCC at least has the power to say "No you can't do fast lanes" and for it to be enforced, is to grant common carrier status. I am back in the boat of reclassification as they have already tried to use 706 and were knocked down.

  3. #94
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by dWarriors88 View Post
    Sure websites will get more fancy and advanced, but I feel like Operating Systems in general are being programmed and built to 'do less'. Perhaps as an effort to curb novice hacking? any thoughts, or is this nonsensical?
    I think you are seeing a shift towards more consumer centric variants on cheaper hardware. Tablets, netbooks, etc are all putting enough computing power for the average user in consumers hands for much cheaper. Need to browse the web, look at pictures, and do the occasional tax/spreadsheet software? Tablet or low cost/low power netbook will do all of that, and is attractive for teh consumer at a cheap price point. There will always be the need for the computers and operating systems that can make those types of systems, so they will always be available, but are just becoming more expensive relative to the standard consumer capable devices. Take a mac for example. Lots of polish, extremely useful device that any grandmother can use. It also just happens to be the exact OS that I use for development, but its all about the application.

    So do I think that OSes are becoming less capable? Yes and no. iOS/Android, definitely not something you would want to use for development. Mac OSX, Windows 8, Linux? All available and still very powerful. But all of them, except for linux, are moving to a walled garden approach. Getting Kazaa or some other software on your computer is more difficult than it used to be. Not impossible, but to do it, you are having to step outside of the walled garden that Apple and Microsoft are setting up to deliver a unified and happier consumer experience.

  4. #95
    BamaNation All-American bama_wayne1's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    An ISP is paying for the transmission signals (data). If you leave it as a private enterprise they will charge what the market will allow. If someone deems it too high he starts his own ISP company and cuts the price and takes all of the other guy's customers. So there will not be any nickel and diming nor withholding from a viable user and everyone is happy. CAPITALISM works we should try it!!

  5. #96
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 2003TIDE's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by bama_wayne1 View Post
    An ISP is paying for the transmission signals (data). If you leave it as a private enterprise they will charge what the market will allow. If someone deems it too high he starts his own ISP company and cuts the price and takes all of the other guy's customers. So there will not be any nickel and diming nor withholding from a viable user and everyone is happy. CAPITALISM works we should try it!!
    No offense, but you don't know what you are talking about.

  6. #97
    Moderator ValuJet's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003TIDE View Post
    No offense, but you don't know what you are talking about.

    Nerds. Can we just get back to blastin Obama??!!

  7. #98
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 2003TIDE's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by ValuJet View Post
    Nerds. Can we just get back to blastin Obama??!!
    LOL.

    This is all about transit costs, peering points, and last mile provider's (ie Comcast) monopolies over customers. That's what started us down this road. And a lot of people don't understand what any of that means (both on here and in Washington.)

    Here an interesting blog from an exec of Level 3. http://blog.level3.com/open-internet...isps-internet/

    And here is one where he points to the last mile providers http://blog.level3.com/open-internet...net-middleman/
    Last edited by 2003TIDE; November 12th, 2014 at 11:39 AM.

  8. #99
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 2003TIDE's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    In other news last mile provider threats begin.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102169780

  9. #100
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    I think you are seeing a shift towards more consumer centric variants on cheaper hardware. Tablets, netbooks, etc are all putting enough computing power for the average user in consumers hands for much cheaper. Need to browse the web, look at pictures, and do the occasional tax/spreadsheet software? Tablet or low cost/low power netbook will do all of that, and is attractive for teh consumer at a cheap price point. There will always be the need for the computers and operating systems that can make those types of systems, so they will always be available, but are just becoming more expensive relative to the standard consumer capable devices. Take a mac for example. Lots of polish, extremely useful device that any grandmother can use. It also just happens to be the exact OS that I use for development, but its all about the application.

    So do I think that OSes are becoming less capable? Yes and no. iOS/Android, definitely not something you would want to use for development. Mac OSX, Windows 8, Linux? All available and still very powerful. But all of them, except for linux, are moving to a walled garden approach. Getting Kazaa or some other software on your computer is more difficult than it used to be. Not impossible, but to do it, you are having to step outside of the walled garden that Apple and Microsoft are setting up to deliver a unified and happier consumer experience.
    I was thinking about replying to DW88 but it looks like you nailed most of what I would say

    I agree with all of this but will add that I am both very encouraged by the direction google, apple and others are taking to ensure security by encrypting all of their communications by default and at the same time sadly discouraged by the collective "meh" response from the public to their moves.

    I agree with your comments on windows/mac and it is sad to see to me frankly. What I have always preferred about windows was it's relative openness. I've played with Fedora and the others for a while and will probably move to a linux/gnu distro when this old windows machine finally kicks the bucket.

  10. #101
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003TIDE View Post
    In other news last mile provider threats begin.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102169780
    sounds like AT&T is threatening to take their ball and go home.

  11. #102
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    I was thinking about replying to DW88 but it looks like you nailed most of what I would say

    I agree with all of this but will add that I am both very encouraged by the direction google, apple and others are taking to ensure security by encrypting all of their communications by default and at the same time sadly discouraged by the collective "meh" response from the public to their moves.

    I agree with your comments on windows/mac and it is sad to see to me frankly. What I have always preferred about windows was it's relative openness. I've played with Fedora and the others for a while and will probably move to a linux/gnu distro when this old windows machine finally kicks the bucket.
    I would suggest you look at a Mac. If you are a network engineer/sales as I am assuming you are, all of the good stuff is baked in. You don't have to load a bunch of tools to get a decent terminal, network tracing and analysis, its just baked in. With things like Homebrew, MacPorts, it has all the advantages of a good package manager, with all of the yummy Mac goodness. With regards to the walled garden, some of the very things you praised Google and Apple for are what is actually making the walled gardens so attractive. If I download some package off the internet, with the walled garden I can at least use baked in cert checking in distro packages to determine if it is a legitimate binary. Windows is getting there, and has a lot of it baked in, but its not nearly as unobtrusive, plus not nearly as polished. It is also fairly easy if you need to install non signed, non walled garden apps, I just installed one this AM, took ~30s but I know what I am doing. If my mom had to do it, I would have had to remote in to her machine as I don't let her run on an admin enabled account.

    If you have to have Windows, take a look at virtualbox (free), or VMWare/Parallels (not free), windows is now offering test VM's for free https://www.modern.ie/en-us/virtualization-tools which I am using on virtualbox and very happy. VirtualBox and VMWare both work on linux. If you are looking for a very prevalent Linux distro, take a look at Ubuntu. More consumer friendly, building their own walled garden, but probably best for people new to linux (which you may or not be, I haven't gleaned that). Fedora is nice too, and probably one of the bigger more stable distros but they are all good. I do hate dealing with rpm/yum though, and much prefer debians package management.

    I am pretty familiar with all of them if you are interested (Home is dual boot windows 8/hackintosh) we can chat on PM so we quit getting nerd on these fine posters here.

  12. #103
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    sounds like AT&T is threatening to take their BRIBE and go home.
    FIFY

    Most of this proposed infrastructure build out was something AT&T said they would do if the FCC would approve of their DirectTV merger.

  13. #104
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    Re: Obama wants to make the internet a utility

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    sounds like AT&T is threatening to take their ball and go home.
    Or, we're seeing a real-life example of a negative consequence of government regulation.

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