Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

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NationalTitles18

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I guess that means you couldn't find one. :D

I wouldn't be so quick to reject the consensus opinion. Things like this move very slowly in science in this day and age. There has been a lot of time spent deliberating a lot of very compelling evidence for the vast majority of the scientists in the field to tell us that that we're seeing is exactly what we think it is.

I don't have as much free time as you think I do. I happen to be an excellent Google jockey and have had this debate more than once. ;)
Take it however you like and congratulations.
 

Jon

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That's awesome!



We have at least one individual that can claim a mathematics degree.
the problem with a hosted xkcd image is that you lose the secondary punchline in the mouseover text and that one is particularly good (if maybe a tad inappropriate for tidefans)
 

TideEngineer08

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I admit, I'm really not educated enough to get down in the weeds on this topic. (My forum nickname is in reference to me being in school to be a mechanical engineer, but the money ran out, life - wife/child started getting serious, and I had to take a different path in the IT field).

So I'm the stereotypical skeptic that doesn't have the same education level as the stereotypical GW/CC believer. My biggest issue with it is the political power grab that is inevitable. Also, I believe we would have more success if the angle taken was one of keeping the earth clean, instead of apocalyptic destruction in we don't act NOW. Where "acting" is typically some form of economic restriction.

I don't know. I have very little impact on the issue one way or another. Even who I vote for doesn't matter, as Alabama is a very red state.

Anyway, the debate over the last few pages has been enlightening despite some of the barner snark that has invaded the board. :wink:
 

CajunCrimson

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Come over to our politically speaking forum some time. You'll see that the "skeptical" view isn't actually uncommon. I'll say this, though. Those of us on the "pro" side are generally more likely to have hard science or engineering (Hi!) degrees.
That makes sense.....i'd wager that most on the "pro" side would be "hard science".....because scientists and other logic based thinkers will always try to find a problem to solve. It's in their nature. When presented with a problem, they will analyze data and try to find a cause/effect. The problem is - is that as the technology advances and becomes more accurate....scientists often conveniently forget their previous "100% accurate results" that are now shown as incorrect......

I come from logic-based thinkers. My Dad was a University Professor and my Mom has her Masters+30....in Education....and are both very intelligent and logic-based thinkers. So, I do have an affinity for Math -- and Science both. But, I found myself early in my career more fascinated by the personal interactions between people. I am a people watcher and reader....and I love seeing how people to react to a good argument.....

I admire your persistence....but I am also quite happy you are a Barner. I wish you would take a few of these lefties on here back with you to Lee County ;)

With regards to the topic.....I would love to know how many scientists in the 70s thought we were headed to another ice age.









Some of your "hard science" buddies in the 70s.....and there are dozens more....if you need more. I'm wondering why your "hard science" buddies are right this time, but so wrong 40 years ago.
 

Jon

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I admit, I'm really not educated enough to get down in the weeds on this topic. (My forum nickname is in reference to me being in school to be a mechanical engineer, but the money ran out, life - wife/child started getting serious, and I had to take a different path in the IT field).

So I'm the stereotypical skeptic that doesn't have the same education level as the stereotypical GW/CC believer. My biggest issue with it is the political power grab that is inevitable. Also, I believe we would have more success if the angle taken was one of keeping the earth clean, instead of apocalyptic destruction in we don't act NOW. Where "acting" is typically some form of economic restriction.

I don't know. I have very little impact on the issue one way or another. Even who I vote for doesn't matter, as Alabama is a very red state.

Anyway, the debate over the last few pages has been enlightening despite some of the barner snark that has invaded the board. :wink:
Stereotypical skeptic? Not based on my definition but that's another issue

On the political power grab, I agree completely. It is 100% obvious and clear that the Environmental movement was hijacked years ago by the anti-capitalist left, communists, extreme socialists, etc that saw the movement as a particularly effective weapon for harming the right and their "evil corporatist" friends. What's worse is that they are very very happy to lie and even gloss over the sins of their own in order to accomplish their far left goals. They yap on about this and that while hypocritically flying around in massively inefficient private jets and own 10K+ square foot palaces while making a fortune selling carbon credits and other nonsense (looking at you Al Gore)

but what is most sad about all of this is that, in the end, they weren't wrong. I wish they were. I fought alongside the right on this for years. Pointed out these hypocrisies, quoted The Skeptical Environmentalist and Dixie Lee Ray and you know what? I was wrong, as were they, the planet is being effected by our behavior and ultimately we do need to do some things, and fast.

What is most clear to me at this point is that politicians won't solve this. Neither will the free market, mostly because we don't have one. The billionaires running the right are fully aligned with the energy companies and while I don't believe they are the evil characters out of "Captain Planet" they are certainly very willing to line their pockets while looking the other way. The billionaires on the left and their multimillionaire friends in the Entertainment industry are just as bad. I argue this with my lefty friends all the time. Their lies have caused those of us in the middle to question it all. They think the end justifies the means, it doesn't. The means just confuses the issue and causes us to question everything to the point of paralysis, as we can see in this very thread

oh, and for the record I have no idea what to do about this but at this point I've got my hopes pinned on science and technology figuring a way. In the 50's the math all showed that there was no way we could feed the population of earth, then Norman Borlaug came along and saved the world (look him up, he's a freaking hero that should be honored). Who will be the Borlaug of the 21st century? Elon Musk is certainly trying as is Dean Kamen, Peter Diamandis, Bill Gates and several others, but I suspect like old Norman it will be someone unknown quietly working away in a lab and it will start with the best three words in science, "Huh, that's odd".
 

Tide1986

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That's awesome!



We have at least one individual that claims a mathematics degree.
Just checking...was your "claims" reference in relation to me? If so, I'll be happy to provide proof if you feel that you need it.

Alabama, Class of 1990, by the way. Doubled in Mathematics and History and minored in Computer Science.
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Just checking...was your "claims" reference in relation to me? If so, I'll be happy to provide proof if you feel that you need it.

Alabama, Class of 1990, by the way. Doubled in Mathematics and History and minored in Computer Science.
Nah. No proof needed. I have no reason to doubt you.

I was referring to a friend over at AUFamily that has two degrees in physics, a third in mathematics and 40 years teaching astronomy and physics at the university level.
 

Jon

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I agree. He nailed it.

Props for mentioning Borlaug. Out of curiosity (sorry if this is considered derailing), what's your opinion on GMO, Jon?
aw shucks, thanks guys

Borlaug's been a hero of mine ever since I first heard of him back in an old issue of Scientific American in the 90's

GMO's? Mostly I hate the term. We've been genetically modifying organisms so long I seriously doubt anyone could ever find a first time. We could point to Gregor Mendel as perhaps the great great grandfather of it all but he only formalized artificial selection as a scientific endeavor, we've been doing it with crops since we first started agriculture. Ever see what corn started as? It was a grass. Same with Banana's (for fun here google Ray Comfort Banana and then look at a non modified natural banana not the Cavendish Comfort is holding) and broccoli, heck cauliflower doesn't even exist in nature, there are thousands of examples. You, me, we all eat GMO's everyday and at practically every meal.

So based on that I am for GMO's. Where is get's a little dicier for me is with some, not all or even most of the modern GMO's. Want to add Beta Carotene to rice, aka Golden Rice, and solve massive issues for billions of people in the 3rd world? I'm all for it. Want to make your crop resistant to glyphosate (aka round-up) so you can drench your food crop in it and not kill the plant you want me to eat? There is where I draw the line. When these crops first came out we were warned that super weeds and super bugs would come about as a result, and guess what? Monsanto and their scientists assured us that it wouldn't happen, and well of course it has, so I find it rather hard to take their current dismissals seriously.

If you were to pin me down I would say. GMO's are an incredibly important, perhaps even necessary technology that has massive potential for abuse and unintended consequences. Most of what is being done is good and again needed but I do worry about what could happen
 
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AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
aw shucks, thanks guys

Borlaug's been a hero of mine ever since I first heard of him back in an old issue of Scientific American in the 90's

GMO's? Mostly I hate the term. We've been genetically modifying organisms so long I seriously doubt anyone could ever find a first time. We could point to Gregor Mendel as perhaps the great great grandfather of it all but he only formalized artificial selection as a scientific endeavor, we've been doing it with crops since we first started agriculture. Ever see what corn started as? It was a grass. Same with Banana's (for fun here google Ray Comfort Banana and then look at a non modified natural banana not the Cavendish Comfort is holding) and broccoli, heck cauliflower doesn't even exist in nature, there are thousands of examples. You, me, we all eat GMO's everyday and at practically every meal.

So based on that I am for GMO's. Where is get's a little dicier for me is with some, not all or even most of the modern GMO's. Want to add Beta Carotene to rice, aka Golden Rice, and solve massive issues for billions of people in the 3rd world? I'm all for it. Want to make your crop resistant to glyphosate (aka round-up) so you can drench your food crop in it and not kill the plant you want me to eat? There is where I draw the line. When these crops first came out we were warned that super weeds and super bugs would not come about as a result, and guess what? Monsanto and their scientists assured us that it wouldn't happen, and well of course it has, so I find it rather hard to take their current dismissals seriously.

If you were to pin me down I would say. GMO's are an incredibly important, perhaps even necessary technology that has massive potential for abuse and unintended consequences. Most of what is being done is good and again needed but I do worry about what could happen
Excellent response. It mirrors my own opinion on the matter. Thank you.
 

Jon

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Excellent response. It mirrors my own opinion on the matter. Thank you.
I almost replied "my bet is very similar to what I suspect your view is" outside of the colossal mistake you made choosing an undergrad institution you and I seem to be on the same page for many things
 

Jon

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Just checking...was your "claims" reference in relation to me? If so, I'll be happy to provide proof if you feel that you need it.

Alabama, Class of 1990, by the way. Doubled in Mathematics and History and minored in Computer Science.
wow, you and I are much closer in age than I pictured you
 
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