Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever" - Page 8
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  1. #92
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by AUDub View Post
    Excess CO2 causes a whole host of ecological issues. For instance, did you know the pH of the ocean is dropping? Excess CO2 is absorbed by the ocean, forming carbonic acid. Current ocean life evolved with a relatively stable pH over the last 50 million years. Do you have any idea what kind of chaos more acidic oceans could create?
    1. How far back do the actual measured pH records go? (has the technology used to measure changed during the last 50 million years?)
    2. Apparently, with recent discoveries - we have more ocean life than ever....
    3. The current pH level is apparently equal to the pH level of the oceans from 23 million years ago (from what I saw)....and has fluctuated up and down over time...
    4. You use words like "could" create.....why so much uncertainty? Can't you give us some idea of what it "will" create?

    As usual.....you want us to make millions of changes to our planet in the hopes that we "might" alter things just enough so it won't possibly have possible chaos that "could" be created by not doing anything. OR, we could look for signs of change beyond hypothetical before we attack it.

    There is way more proof that Cam Newton took money than there is of global warming - yet, you believe in Global Warming.....what's your take on Cam?
    Last edited by CajunCrimson; July 13th, 2015 at 11:15 AM.
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  2. #93
    BamaNation Hall of Fame seebell's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by dayhiker View Post
    Scientist estimate the age of the universe at a little under 14 billions years. Not important to your point, but just an fyi.
    I don't know about the Universe but the Earth is only 6000 years old!

    Climate from 1,000,000 ago can be determined,

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ctica-ice.html

    Official records go back to the 1600s.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...her.features11

    Statisticians work out whether the entries are reliable, which is why the record going back to 1914 - when observation stations became more uniform in the way they collected data - is almost always the one used.

    You make some good points Cajun.
    Last edited by seebell; July 13th, 2015 at 11:36 AM.

  3. #94
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    As technology advances....the ability to measure things more accurately advances as well.

    We used to measure temperature with a mercury thermometer under the arm to take our body temperature....

    Now, they suggest a rectal thermometer, as the "under the arm" method has proven to be the least accurate.....

    Perhaps we are now just getting the Global Warming - Rectal Thermometer.....and it's not that the temperature has gone up, but maybe we are just more accurate....
    Last edited by CajunCrimson; July 13th, 2015 at 11:51 AM.
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  4. #95
    BamaNation Hall of Fame AUDub's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    1. How far back do the actual measured pH records go? (has the technology used to measure changed during the last 50 million years?)

    We can actually go back quite far using proxies. The same methods for proxy measurement of atmospheric CO2 for most cases.

    2. Apparently, with recent discoveries - we have more ocean life than ever..

    Recent studies also confirm we're wiping it out very rapidly.

    3. The current pH level is apparently equal to the pH level of the oceans from 23 million years ago (from what I saw)....and has fluctuated up and down over time...

    The last major rapid acidification event was roughly 55 million years ago, correlating directly with a mass extinction event.

    4. You use words like "could" create.....why so much uncertainty? Can't you give us some idea of what it "will" create.

    Stock statement of uncertainty. The effects of acidification on most lifeforms are actually well understood. Coral growth is inhibited, creatures that rely on calcified shells see their shells weakened and do not thrive, etc.

    Some lifeforms might thrive in more acidic oceans. Certain jellyfish, for instance.


    As usual.....you want us to make millions of changes to our planet in the hopes that we "might" alter things just enough so it won't possibly have possible chaos that "could" be created by not doing anything. OR, we could look for signs of change beyond hypothetical before we attack it.

    There is way more proof that Cam Newton took money than there is of global warming - yet, you believe in Global Warming.....what's your take on Cam?

    Best 200k we ever spent. B)
    ditto.
    Just a barner.

    There goes Davis!

  5. #96
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Do progressives not believe humans are capable of adapting to a changing environment? It's quite amusing to see progressives so opposed to change.

  6. #97
    BamaNation Hall of Fame seebell's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    Do progressives not believe humans are capable of adapting to a changing environment? It's quite amusing to see progressives so opposed to change.
    I'm trying to imagine myself with a giant heat exchanging sail on my head and back.


  7. #98
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 2003TIDE's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    Are you saying that CO2 levels have never been higher and that you have scientific proof?
    Can you not look at the statement "it took the planet millions to store up" and see that that implies it was higher previously?

    Here is how I look at global warming. #1 Either all the scientist are right and this is all avoidable. And I say ALL because all the deniers cling to a small minority of scientist when they site this or that. #2 If the deniers are right we are screwed anyway because the temp is still going to rise and when sea levels rise in the next 200-300 yrs and a large percentage of the planet is going to have to relocate. Plus we aren't going to be able to feed ourselves due to worsening draughts.

    So I really hope #1 is the case and we can fix this. The human race has alway been incredibly short sighted when it comes to future planning. Between global warming, over fishing of the oceans, reliance on GMO seeds for the world crops, the increase worldwide of animal protein in diets, we are really setting us up for a global disaster where we can't even feed ourselves.

  8. #99
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003TIDE View Post
    Can you not look at the statement "it took the planet millions to store up" and see that that implies it was higher previously?

    Here is how I look at global warming. #1 Either all the scientist are right and this is all avoidable. And I say ALL because all the deniers cling to a small minority of scientist when they site this or that. #2 If the deniers are right we are screwed anyway because the temp is still going to rise and when sea levels rise in the next 200-300 yrs and a large percentage of the planet is going to have to relocate. Plus we aren't going to be able to feed ourselves due to worsening draughts.

    So I really hope #1 is the case and we can fix this. The human race has alway been incredibly short sighted when it comes to future planning. Between global warming, over fishing of the oceans, reliance on GMO seeds for the world crops, the increase worldwide of animal protein in diets, we are really setting us up for a global disaster where we can't even feed ourselves.
    I am not a denier of climate change by the way.

  9. #100
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 2003TIDE's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    I am not a denier of climate change by the way.
    You are a denier of the current scientific theory that climate change is man made. That is what I meant by point #2. IF you are right then the planet is getting warmer, we are screwed in 200-300 yrs, and there is nothing we can do about it.

  10. #101
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    1. How far back do the actual measured pH records go? (has the technology used to measure changed during the last 50 million years?)
    2. Apparently, with recent discoveries - we have more ocean life than ever....
    3. The current pH level is apparently equal to the pH level of the oceans from 23 million years ago (from what I saw)....and has fluctuated up and down over time...
    4. You use words like "could" create.....why so much uncertainty? Can't you give us some idea of what it "will" create?

    As usual.....you want us to make millions of changes to our planet in the hopes that we "might" alter things just enough so it won't possibly have possible chaos that "could" be created by not doing anything. OR, we could look for signs of change beyond hypothetical before we attack it.

    There is way more proof that Cam Newton took money than there is of global warming - yet, you believe in Global Warming.....what's your take on Cam?
    Actually, we do have a pretty good measuring stick - the pH of our own blood and other ground-dwelling animals which left the oceans around the same time. The pH of the oceans now are far different. Hard rock geology actually backs up this theory. Also, waiting until something is "proven" to our (whose?) satisfaction certainly sounds like a formula for waiting too late. Sounds a lot like the tobacco company arguments I heard growing up - "prove it." Correlation means nothing...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  11. #102
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003TIDE View Post
    Can you not look at the statement "it took the planet millions to store up" and see that that implies it was higher previously?

    Here is how I look at global warming. #1 Either all the scientist are right and this is all avoidable. And I say ALL because all the deniers cling to a small minority of scientist when they site this or that. #2 If the deniers are right we are screwed anyway because the temp is still going to rise and when sea levels rise in the next 200-300 yrs and a large percentage of the planet is going to have to relocate. Plus we aren't going to be able to feed ourselves due to worsening draughts.

    So I really hope #1 is the case and we can fix this. The human race has alway been incredibly short sighted when it comes to future planning. Between global warming, over fishing of the oceans, reliance on GMO seeds for the world crops, the increase worldwide of animal protein in diets, we are really setting us up for a global disaster where we can't even feed ourselves.
    http://www.petitionproject.org/quali...of_signers.php

    31,487 American scientists is not an insignificant number. That page gives a breakdown on what relative fields of science they come from as well.

    There are many questions still unanswered regarding anthropogenic climate change and whether climate change in general will be catastrophic or even perhaps overall beneficial.

    Deniers is a political word that beyond being wildly inaccurate is emotionally charged and has nothing to do with the issue. Logical fallacies like appeal to authority and insulting word implications (appeal to emotion) will not improve your evidence or argument. They certainly will not prove you correct. Why is it that people continue to use logical fallacies to promote a scientific viewpoint, are astonished at those who are too sophisticated to fall for them, and then double down on the logical fallacies?! Their use makes you less credible. As does the track record of failed projections and predictions.

    People, including scientists, have said for decades that the population bomb and increase in wealth throughout the world is going to lead to catastrophic consequences in short order. We've blown right past every dire prediction with increased population and wealth - and not just the top 1% of 1%.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_roslin...te?language=en
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

    The TideFan formerly known as NationalTitles16, NationalTitles15, NationalTitles14, NationalTitles13, and NationalTitles12.

  12. #103
    BamaNation Hall of Fame AUDub's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    You're going to have to do better than the long since since discredited Oregon Petition.

    The Seattle Times reported that it includes names such as: "Perry S. Mason" (the fictitious lawyer), "Michael J. Fox" (the actor), "Robert C. Byrd" (the Senator), "John C. Grisham" (the lawyer-author), not to mention a Spice Girl, aka. Geraldine Halliwell: the petition listed "Dr. Geri Halliwell" and "Dr. Halliwell."[5] The petition also contains duplicate signatures, signatures of a last name only with not even a first initial, and even "signatures" attributed to corporations.[6] Although as Mitt Romney taught us, corporations are people too. In an interview the Robinson, said, "When we're getting thousands of signatures there's no way of filtering out a fake." Scientific Americanexamined the list and came to the conclusion that a large percentage of the alleged Ph, D. signatures probably are fake.[7]Notwithstanding its rather dubious methodology, that bastion of scientific rigor, Fox News, has quoted the petition in its news stories.[8]
    Just a barner.

    There goes Davis!

  13. #104
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by AUDub View Post
    You're going to have to do better than the long since since discredited Oregon Petition.

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