Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever" - Page 9
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  1. #105
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Actually, we do have a pretty good measuring stick - the pH of our own blood and other ground-dwelling animals which left the oceans around the same time. The pH of the oceans now are far different. Hard rock geology actually backs up this theory. Also, waiting until something is "proven" to our (whose?) satisfaction certainly sounds like a formula for waiting too late. Sounds a lot like the tobacco company arguments I heard growing up - "prove it." Correlation means nothing...
    But again ... I just believe that as technology continues to advance, we realize that we were previously mistaken.....

    Perhaps the altered pH levels in the ocean have more to do with what's inside the planet vs what's on top.....and perhaps we have nothing to do with it at all.

    I found a chart that goes back millions of years and it shows sharp rises and falls -- similar to our current path -- to me that shows me it has less to do with us and more to do with maybe the Earth just has a fever and it needs some time to feel better.....
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

  2. #106
    BamaNation Hall of Fame seebell's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    This is getting interesting!


    Hahaha Cajun. Philly voter list.

  3. #107
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    But again ... I just believe that as technology continues to advance, we realize that we were previously mistaken.....

    Perhaps the altered pH levels in the ocean have more to do with what's inside the planet vs what's on top.....and perhaps we have nothing to do with it at all.

    I found a chart that goes back millions of years and it shows sharp rises and falls -- similar to our current path -- to me that shows me it has less to do with us and more to do with maybe the Earth just has a fever and it needs some time to feel better.....
    Please give the citation to the chart indicating changing pH levels over millions of years...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  4. #108
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

  5. #109
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Ocean acidification is essentially irreversible during our lifetimes. It will take tens of thousands of years for ocean chemistry to return to a condition similar to that occurring at pre-industrial times (about 200 years ago). Our ability to reduce ocean acidification through artificial methods such as the addition of chemicals is unproven. These techniques will at best be effective only at a very local scale, and could also cause damage to the marine environment.
    Pretty bleak outlook...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    “I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.” Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  6. #110
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by 2003TIDE View Post
    You are a denier of the current scientific theory that climate change is man made. That is what I meant by point #2. IF you are right then the planet is getting warmer, we are screwed in 200-300 yrs, and there is nothing we can do about it.
    I have no doubt that man's activities have an impact on the Earth.

  7. #111
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by AUDub View Post
    You're going to have to do better than the long since since discredited Oregon Petition.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    You definitely need a better source than that to discredit it.
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

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  8. #112
    BamaNation Hall of Fame AUDub's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles15 View Post
    You definitely need a better source than that to discredit it.
    LOL. Hello, genetic fallacy.

    Since it doesn't pass your ideological purity test, how about the Seattle Times or Scientific American?

    And it's not on me to discredit it. That's already happened.
    Just a barner.

    There goes Davis!

  9. #113
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by AUDub View Post
    LOL. Hello, genetic fallacy.

    Since it doesn't pass your ideological purity test, how about the Seattle Times or Scientific American?

    And it's not on me to discredit it. That's already happened.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestay...arming-crisis/

    I'm sure these have been discredited as well, though. But yeah, every scientist in the world agrees that the end is near. The war with the fundies on why is just around the corner.

    There have been a number of very prominent scientists, including atmospheric scientist, climate scientists, and others who disagree with the "consensus". A "consensus" means little to me anyway. It doesn't prove anything. Scientists arguing against it doesn't prove anything.

    The reason I linked the petition (and yes, some names have been verified as fake, some had faked credentials, and some real scientists who really signed it have since changed their mind to one degree or another) and the Forbes article was to show that there is legitimate disagreement among scientists. And there is disagreement. And not just on the fringe. The disagreements are usually about the cause and the consequences.

    Either way, previous climate models with wild predictions about catastrophic consequences have not quite panned out that way. Previous predictions made in peer-reviewed studies and by the IPCC or similar groups have not come true. By and large, the models can't even predict the past. IOW, they fail when past numbers are fed to them to predict what already did happen in the past. If a model for prediction is to be credible it has to be able to "predict" what we already know has happened. The current models fail miserably at that.

    I'd appreciate if you laid off the ad hominem remarks, especially in regards to fambly. If the best you can do is attack the messenger and have no support for your message then - what am I talking about? This is the perfect place for you. Just keep it cordial, please.
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

    The TideFan formerly known as NationalTitles16, NationalTitles15, NationalTitles14, NationalTitles13, and NationalTitles12.

  10. #114
    BamaNation Hall of Fame AUDub's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles15 View Post
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestay...arming-crisis/

    I'm sure these have been discredited as well, though. But yeah, every scientist in the world agrees that the end is near. The war with the fundies on why is just around the corner.

    There have been a number of very prominent scientists, including atmospheric scientist, climate scientists, and others who disagree with the "consensus". A "consensus" means little to me anyway. It doesn't prove anything. Scientists arguing against it doesn't prove anything.

    The reason I linked the petition (and yes, some names have been verified as fake, some had faked credentials, and some real scientists who really signed it have since changed their mind to one degree or another) and the Forbes article was to show that there is legitimate disagreement among scientists. And there is disagreement. And not just on the fringe. The disagreements are usually about the cause and the consequences.

    Either way, previous climate models with wild predictions about catastrophic consequences have not quite panned out that way. Previous predictions made in peer-reviewed studies and by the IPCC or similar groups have not come true. By and large, the models can't even predict the past. IOW, they fail when past numbers are fed to them to predict what already did happen in the past. If a model for prediction is to be credible it has to be able to "predict" what we already know has happened. The current models fail miserably at that.

    I'd appreciate if you laid off the ad hominem remarks, especially in regards to fambly. If the best you can do is attack the messenger and have no support for your message then - what am I talking about? This is the perfect place for you. Just keep it cordial, please.
    As a matter of fact, Taylor got it flat wrong. So wrong, in fact, he's wandered into fractal wrongness territory. Why am I not surprised?

    http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2...y-180-degrees/

    84% of those respondents aren't scientists at all. LOL. The disagreement among scientists in the field is extremely minuscule. It's always the same names trotted out by the denialists. Lindzen, Christy, Spencer, Curry, Soon, Nova, Singer, etc.

    And there was no ad hominem remark. Maybe I should have referred to it as the fallacy of virtue or the fallacy of origin.

    Pick something you want to discuss specifically instead of Gish galloping, please. Want to discuss the models? Let's do that. They're more accurate than you realize. The consensus? That's fine too. One subject at a time, if you would.
    Just a barner.

    There goes Davis!

  11. #115
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by AUDub View Post
    . One subject at a time, if you would.
    on non-sports? good luck
    "There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist." - Terry Pratchett

  12. #116
    BamaNation Hall of Fame seebell's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Heartland Institute pretty much says it all.

  13. #117
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: Paper; Global Warming "The Biggest Science Scandal Ever"

    Quote Originally Posted by AUDub View Post
    As a matter of fact, Taylor got it flat wrong. So wrong, in fact, he's wandered into fractal wrongness territory. Why am I not surprised?

    http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/2...y-180-degrees/

    84% of those respondents aren't scientists at all. LOL. The disagreement among scientists in the field is extremely minuscule. It's always the same names trotted out by the denialists. Lindzen, Christy, Spencer, Curry, Soon, Nova, Singer, etc.

    And there was no ad hominem remark. Maybe I should have referred to it as the fallacy of virtue or the fallacy of origin.

    Pick something you want to discuss specifically instead of Gish galloping, please. Want to discuss the models? Let's do that. They're more accurate than you realize. The consensus? That's fine too. One subject at a time, if you would.
    The subject is climate change, no? There is a lot of misinformation out there - and it's not just one-sided. As for that site, not impressed, once again. Clearly a spin. And clearly an ad hominem attack on the oil and gas ties without mention of government grant ties of other scientists or of the concerted effort to keep skeptical articles from peer-reviewed publications.

    So, if you want to talk global warming it's really simple - prove that it's anthropogenic since you want to spend trillions of dollars fixing the problem. Prove the models spelling gloom and doom are accurate. It's not my burden to prove a negative. That's just not possible. I know the Earth has warmed in recent times. I know it was very cold recently as well, with "The Little Ice age" and even a "Year Without a Summer".

    So what is Earth's "normal" temperature and what has been man's direct impact on that? Remember always that correlation does not equal causation.

    Remember also that attacking the skeptical messenger does not prove your point. At all. Not even a little.
    Roll Tide Roll!!!

    The TideFan formerly known as NationalTitles16, NationalTitles15, NationalTitles14, NationalTitles13, and NationalTitles12.

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