Attitude Shifts About Dabo?

mittman

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My attitude has not shifted. I think he is a good, maybe even great coach, and like others I am not a big fan of his personality. I thought Saban was a great coach, a total jerk, and was not a fan of his personality (for different reasons) before he came to Alabama. I have obviously seen a different side of him since then.

There is no way I am going to worry about who may or may not replace Coach Saban until that day comes.

As for whether or not his success is only tied to Watson, I always think that is unfair. Every coach win/loss success is always tied to their players. Sometimes a single player has a larger impact, but he did coach them. Take Chizik as an example. Laying it all on Cam (even though he was a dominant player) doesn't take into account how good their OL was and Nick Fairley trying to and sometimes succeeding in crippling everyone he tackled. He lost a different team and got fired for it.

We will see if he can recruit enough great players sustain a program. So far he has proven he can sustain at a high level, just not at a championship level.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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My attitude has not shifted. I think he is a good, maybe even great coach, and like others I am not a big fan of his personality. I thought Saban was a great coach, a total jerk, and was not a fan of his personality (for different reasons) before he came to Alabama. I have obviously seen a different side of him since then.

There is no way I am going to worry about who may or may not replace Coach Saban until that day comes.

As for whether or not his success is only tied to Watson, I always think that is unfair. Every coach win/loss success is always tied to their players. Sometimes a single player has a larger impact, but he did coach them. Take Chizik as an example. Laying it all on Cam (even though he was a doesn't take into account how good their OL was and Nick Fairley trying to and sometimes succeeding in crippling everyone he tackled. He lost a different team and got fired for it.

We will see if he can recruit enough great players sustain a program. So far he has proven he can sustain at a high level, just not at a championship level.
According to this article, that won't be any time soon, as long as CNS' health holds out. Saban has made the same remark about being nothing without his players. OTOH, I do think it's fair to take into account super players and the schedule, when judging a head coach...

LINK
 

mittman

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According to this article, that won't be any time soon, as long as CNS' health holds out. Saban has made the same remark about being nothing without his players. OTOH, I do think it's fair to take into account super players and the schedule, when judging a head coach...

LINK
I do think it is fair to take it into account, but making it the whole of the argument IMO is never fair. We tend to do that.

There are a lot of good players on that Clemson team. Watson obviously is dominant and a big part of the success. Swinney will have to replace and develop someone else when he is gone. Whether he can has to be taken into account. If I left the impression that it wasn't part of the equation when judging a coaches success, I did not intend to. My problem is more with the weight we tend apply for that factor.
 

bamadp

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Sep 24, 2006
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For everyone so enamored of Dabo let me state the following:

Gene Chizik + Scam Newton = Great Team
Dabo Swinney + Deshaun Watson = Great Team

Let's see how good they are once DW is gone. DW's performance was about 75% of that team on Monday. Without him they would have gotten DRILLED!
Bingo!!!
As of now, Jim McElwain>Dabo Swinney, Ten years from now, who knows?
 

TIDE-HSV

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I do think it is fair to take it into account, but making it the whole of the argument IMO is never fair. We tend to do that.

There are a lot of good players on that Clemson team. Watson obviously is dominant and a big part of the success. Swinney will have to replace and develop someone else when he is gone. Whether he can has to be taken into account. If I left the impression that it wasn't part of the equation when judging a coaches success, I did not intend to. My problem is more with the weight we tend apply for that factor.
I think that's a correct assessment. I believe that the quirk of human memory involved is that the massive fails, such as Brown and Vince Young, Chizik and Cam, Sumlin and Manziel, just, in hindsight, stick more than the coaches who have carried on and produced later. Therefore, the jury is always out until the coach proves himself again. As a contrast, look at the row of QBs Saban has produced with. Only AJ was a real possibility for the NFL. It's come to the place that most media no longer discount Bama because of a new QB. I'll be watching Dabo closely to see which cubbyhole he falls into, after Watson is gone...
 

BamaMoon

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Bingo!!!
As of now, Jim McElwain>Dabo Swinney, Ten years from now, who knows?
Just curious, what's your basis for JM > DS right now?

Not arguing that CDS is ready for job like Bama and I'm not saying he'd ever be ready, but CJM has had two 10 win seasons in a row and CDS has had 5 and this past year he had the second best team in the country that stood toe to toe with us.

I too like CJM, but this past season he won with a defense that was left over from the Muschamp regime at UF. I think he'll get it done at UF, but IMO, Dabo has proven to be the more consistent coach at this stage of their career.
 

BamaMoon

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I think that's a correct assessment. I believe that the quirk of human memory involved is that the massive fails, such as Brown and Vince Young, Chizik and Cam, Sumlin and Manziel, just, in hindsight, stick more than the coaches who have carried on and produced later. Therefore, the jury is always out until the coach proves himself again. As a contrast, look at the row of QBs Saban has produced with. Only AJ was a real possibility for the NFL. It's come to the place that most media no longer discount Bama because of a new QB. I'll be watching Dabo closely to see which cubbyhole he falls into, after Watson is gone...
Not that I disagree, but Clemson had a team of athletes and I personally think they made a mistake of not sticking with the run to balance out their offensive arsenal. I know they didn't break off any big runs, but there were a couple of times they were one missed tackle from an explosive play. I remember they had several runs early on of 3-5 yards and I was starting to get concerned if they could do that it would really open up their passing game even more.

After we stop honoring their running game, we really started to bring more pressure it seemed to me. Not sure we could have consistently done that if they would have established a little more of a running game.
 

Crimson Speed

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I thought his team played well and his staff coached well. He has elevated the stature of Clemson and done a good job there - but I believe Earle when he speaks this clearly. I do not think he is a good fit for us.

Who would want to succeed Saban anyway ? Talk about destined to fail, by comparison.
I completely agree. The next guy to coach at the Capstone should take a hard look at the coach/coaches that immediately followed Paul Bear Bryant. When expectations are so high, any drop in performance brings certain heat. Hopefully, we will not have to face that for a few more years.

I do respect what Dabo has accomplished at Clemson, especially with offensive and defensive lines. Not only have they recruited well, but they were successful in coaching up those linemen. With that said, Watson was the difference maker for them, not just in the championship game, but all season long. Without him, they would have never reached the playoffs. I want to see what Dabo can accomplish over time with a QB that is good, but not on Watson's level. If, over the next few years, he can maintain a top ten level, then I will acknowledge his talent as an elite coach. There is a long list of coaches that are "one or two season wonders".
 

USCBAMA

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Not that I disagree, but Clemson had a team of athletes and I personally think they made a mistake of not sticking with the run to balance out their offensive arsenal. I know they didn't break off any big runs, but there were a couple of times they were one missed tackle from an explosive play. I remember they had several runs early on of 3-5 yards and I was starting to get concerned if they could do that it would really open up their passing game even more.

After we stop honoring their running game, we really started to bring more pressure it seemed to me. Not sure we could have consistently done that if they would have established a little more of a running game.
Could not disagree more. clemson could not consistently line up & run on Bama and got most of their They actually had a good game plan of attacking Bama's young DBs Fitzpatrick & Humphery and avoiding the more experienced Smith & Jackson. They racked 40 pts on a defense built to stop their style of offense. Their offensive game plan was not a problem and was quite effective.
 

81usaf92

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Dabo is good for an emotional based team, but if we are going for that kinda person I really don't see it being a better situation than having kiffin being the hc. The problem is that anyone not named jimbo fisher, Jim harbaugh, mark dantonio, urban Meyer, or tom Herman at this point is not going to be given full control by the bot, and Herman and fisher is reaching with that distinction. I feel whoever it is isn't going to be a huge splash and their hiring isn't going to be well received by all until they win a title.
 

bamablood6

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Dabo Swinney is a good man.
Michael Shula is a good man.

There are a lot of good men out there.....not all of them are great coaches, some of them are good coaches and some of them are bad coaches.

There are some men that are not so good.....not all of them are great coaches, some of them are good coaches and some of them are bad coaches.

Sometimes what we see on the outside looking in, is not who that person really is.

Sometimes people change, and most times they don't.
 

bamadp

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Just curious, what's your basis for JM > DS right now?

Not arguing that CDS is ready for job like Bama and I'm not saying he'd ever be ready, but CJM has had two 10 win seasons in a row and CDS has had 5 and this past year he had the second best team in the country that stood toe to toe with us.

I too like CJM, but this past season he won with a defense that was left over from the Muschamp regime at UF. I think he'll get it done at UF, but IMO, Dabo has proven to be the more consistent coach at this stage of their career.
There are three parts to a football team, offense, defense, and ST. As headcoach you're responsible for all three phases. Championships are won with defense and ST. IDK if CJM will be able to sustain his success at Florida. But we do know that after seven years as headcoach at Clemson CDS, while ramping up his offense, his defense and ST's are mediocre at best. In his last five bowl games, Clemson has given up an average of 36 ppg. That ain't gonna cut it here. IOW, without DW, I don't think CDS has nearly the success at Clemson that CJM had at Florida.
 

BamaMark.

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There are three parts to a football team, offense, defense, and ST. As headcoach you're responsible for all three phases. Championships are won with defense and ST. IDK if CJM will be able to sustain his success at Florida. But we do know that after seven years as headcoach at Clemson CDS, while ramping up his offense, his defense and ST's are mediocre at best. In his last five bowl games, Clemson has given up an average of 36 ppg. That ain't gonna cut it here. IOW, without DW, I don't think CDS has nearly the success at Clemson that CJM had at Florida.
In the 3 years BEFORE DW he was 3-0 in bowl games and beat LSU, Ohio State, and Oklahoma giving up an average of 22 points a game. Beat Oklahoma again in the playoffs this year and gave Bama all we could handle. Yeah, I guess you're right, he's got a helluva long way to catch up to JM. And that's no disrespect to JM...
 

BamaMark.

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There are three parts to a football team, offense, defense, and ST. As headcoach you're responsible for all three phases. Championships are won with defense and ST. IDK if CJM will be able to sustain his success at Florida. But we do know that after seven years as headcoach at Clemson CDS, while ramping up his offense, his defense and ST's are mediocre at best. In his last five bowl games, Clemson has given up an average of 36 ppg. That ain't gonna cut it here. IOW, without DW, I don't think CDS has nearly the success at Clemson that CJM had at Florida.
Also, had the #13 defense this year and #1 last year. I guess that's mediocre at best...
 

TouchThatThang

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I thought his team was well prepared last night and played their butts off. That said, no my opinion hasn't changed and in fact worsened listening to his post game presser. He had enough excuses and blame game to last a long time.
I agree, but I feel the same way about Jim Harbaugh. He was all excuses after losing the Super Bowl and if the announcers hadn't told you he was coaching against his brother, you wouldn't know it. I'd still love to have him as a coach. We act like there is some perfect coach out there just dying to replace CNS. There isn't. When CNS retires there is a good chance that CDS will be the best option in terms of coaching ability. I think it's very possible there won't be any other candidates out there with a resume the caliber of CDS, when that time comes. He might be a little immature but I still think he could represent us with class. I still have faith he'll grow up a little.
 

81usaf92

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There are three parts to a football team, offense, defense, and ST. As headcoach you're responsible for all three phases. Championships are won with defense and ST. IDK if CJM will be able to sustain his success at Florida. But we do know that after seven years as headcoach at Clemson CDS, while ramping up his offense, his defense and ST's are mediocre at best. In his last five bowl games, Clemson has given up an average of 36 ppg. That ain't gonna cut it here. IOW, without DW, I don't think CDS has nearly the success at Clemson that CJM had at Florida.
Well You know Gus is such a world beater after his first year...***blue font***

I think some of you need to tap the breaks on CJM. He inherited a stellar defense, and benefitted from butch single handling from blowing his 2 of 3 games that he should've won. Yes I'll admit even with the cards he was dealt he exceeded rational expectations, but let's call a spade a spade and acknowledge Florida was not the best team in the east solely because of CJM. It took Tennessee jobbing themselves out of games and uga getting punch drunk after bama and losing their best player on offense. Florida should've lost to UT, USCe, and vandy but they found a way to pull it out based on talent in 2/3 of those games just like Gus did in 2013. . I will remind you Florida was 11-1 in 2012 with their only loss to uga under will muschamp.

I will say the notion of potentially getting Dabo as replacement isn't an idea that makes me get a good feeling, but he is far and away more proven than CJM at this point.
 
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