Head to Head Recruiting vs. Ole Miss

TideMan09

Hall of Fame
Jan 17, 2009
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We keep saying that. Everyone (or just about ) seems convicted in the belief that it`s so. Unless there`s substantive evidence of money changing hands, it smacks of sour grapes with no more credence than what barn people or other fan bases say about us and the REC. Mind you, I`m not saying it`s not true. I would just be interested in knowing what the final results are in our head to head competition for recruits.
I dunno what to think about Coach Freeze recruiting at Ole Miss..There's historically always been shady recruiting at Ole Miss, but, I think Coach Freeze can just flat out recruit myself..

Coach Saban has always been a helluva recruiter at every school he's been a HC at, then when he became a SEC HC at LSU, he became the absolute best recruiter in the SEC & college football over night..When Coach Saban was landing those monster recruiting classes at LSU, many of us said he had to be cheating, when in actuality he was just a great recruiter that recruits were drawn to..

I have a feeling Coach Freeze is just a really good recruiter, for one simple fact, he runs the kinda offense, that's really popular with high school recruits & is the kinda offense many many recruits plays at their high school..When you combine that with Coach Freeze being a really really good recruiter..He's landing many Top Offensive Recruits..I could be totally wrong & those "Millionaires" could be very well back in business in Oxford once again..
 

Tideflyer

Hall of Fame
Dec 14, 2011
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That's a load of crap. It's going on and it is obvious. You can say what ever the heck you want, but this isn't a court of law. We don't need the bag man to point out the obvious.

Let me give an example, it's like a woman choosing Charlie Sheen over George Clooney. Now, if it happened once or twice you could go hmm that's interesting. It keeps happening? You start to say hey, there's got to be something going on. There's got to be something going on, period.

You are seemingly ignoring who committed to them, when, and how. The more you follow recruiting, the more obvious it is. They have landed guys they have absolutely no business landing, for otherwise inexplicable reasons. Usually you get a feel for where a guy is leaning, Ole Miss started getting guys that seemingly didn't even know who Ole Miss was a short while before their committing. Once again, you look at it once, or twice and you go oh.... well that's interesting. They do is several times in a row? You reach the obvious conclusion, the conclusion almost anyone would easily reach as well. It's common sense at this point that they are enticing players with something other than their mediocre program and mediocre coach.

Rivals top 5, which of these is not like the others:
Ohio State (5)
LSU (9)
Ole Miss (41)
Notre Dame (2)
Michigan (6)

I put the all time rankings next to the program to make the obvious all that much more clear. And, mind you... this is not the first time Ole Miss has done it, it just happens to be a more organized effort than the last time. The last time they made a big uhh "recruiting push", it was their best class ever. This will eclipse that. Both happened under similar circumstances...

Edit: I'll add one last thing. It has been mentioned before, but the Ole Miss campus might be the most toxic in the SEC for recruiting. First, it's in Mississippi, and second they love the rebel flag, which wouldn't exactly endear them to potential recruits. It's just as well that some of the recruits seem indifferent to the campus. The point though, is that Ole Miss was never, ever, good at recruiting for obvious reasons. Now, all of the sudden, you put together a coach who isn't a good recruiter and a school that doesn't recruit well and you're beating Saban and Alabama head to head consistently??? Yeah... alright, sour grapes is your explanation.
OK, fine. Show us the evidence. You may certainly be correct. But until it`s presented, those who throw around the Ole Mi$$ moniker are in the same boat as the fans of other schools who accuse us of exactly the same thing. I`m as frustrated as anyone. And believe it or not, I ask the same questions as everyone else. I just haven`t seen the proof of what many seem so obviously convinced.
 

rgw

Suspended
Sep 15, 2003
20,852
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At either rate, dipping into Mississippi has gotten tougher on LSU and Alabama the last few years.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
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kraizy.art
OK, fine. Show us the evidence.
This isn't a court of law. Either you have common sense or you don't, I can't give it to you. There is a multitude of circumstantial evidence though, more than enough for any rational individual to draw the obvious conclusion.

As hard as it is to accept, not everybody wants to play at Alabama, and some kids actually grow up dreaming about playing for the home-state school.
Top 3 from the 2013 class:
Robert Nkemdiche DE Loganville, GA (362 miles away) 5 Star
Laremy Tunsil OL Lake City, FL (586 miles away) 5 Star
Laquon Treadwell WR Crete, IL (589 miles away) 5 Star

None of those guys grew up dreaming about playing for Ole Miss. All of those guys declared for the draft first chance they got. Is this year any different? Here's the 5 stars:
Gregory Little OL Allen, TX (527 miles away) 5 Star
Shea Patterson QB Bradenton, FL (792 miles away) 5 Star
You kind of proved the point with what you said though, because Ole Miss is building their classes around guys who for the most part have no other obvious reason to want to be there.
 
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Tideflyer

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This isn't a court of law. Either you have common sense or you don't, I can't give it to you. There is a multitude of circumstantial evidence though, more than enough for any rational individual to draw the obvious conclusion.


Top 3 from the 2013 class:
Robert Nkemdiche Loganville, GA 5 Star
Laremy Tunsil OL Lake City, FL 5 Star
Laquon Treadwell WR Crete, IL 5 Star

None of those guys grew up dreaming about playing for Ole Miss. All of those guys declared for the draft first chance they got. Is this year any different? Here's the 5 stars:
Gregory Little OL Allen, TX 5 Star
Shea Patterson QB Bradenton, FL 5 Star
You kind of proved the point with what you said though, because Ole Miss is building their classes around guys who for the most part have no reason to want to be there.
OK, you win. Since Ole Miss`s cheating is so obvious that "any rational individual " should be able to draw an "obvious conclusion" that it`s occurring, are we all simply doomed to wallow in abject frustration as nothing is done about it?
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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This isn't a court of law. Either you have common sense or you don't, I can't give it to you. There is a multitude of circumstantial evidence though, more than enough for any rational individual to draw the obvious conclusion.


Top 3 from the 2013 class:
Robert Nkemdiche DE Loganville, GA (362 miles away) 5 Star
Laremy Tunsil OL Lake City, FL (586 miles away) 5 Star
Laquon Treadwell WR Crete, IL (589 miles away) 5 Star

None of those guys grew up dreaming about playing for Ole Miss. All of those guys declared for the draft first chance they got. Is this year any different? Here's the 5 stars:
Gregory Little OL Allen, TX (527 miles away) 5 Star
Shea Patterson QB Bradenton, FL (792 miles away) 5 Star
You kind of proved the point with what you said though, because Ole Miss is building their classes around guys who for the most part have no other obvious reason to want to be there.
Krazy, to be fair here you must acknowledge two things -

Patterson is from Louisiana and transferred to IMG Academy (sports academy) for his senior year.

Ole Miss hired Patterson's older brother away from LSU, which made them the immediate favorite to sign Shea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KrAzY3

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Krazy, to be fair here you must acknowledge two things -

Patterson is from Louisiana and transferred to IMG Academy (sports academy) for his senior year.

Ole Miss hired Patterson's older brother away from LSU, which made them the immediate favorite to sign Shea.
I'd go a step further. Conner was from Mississippi, and Robert's brother played for Ole Miss. It isn't that I think every single recruit for Ole Miss is dirty, or that I think they all had to be bought. It is just that there's way too much stuff going on for it all to be legit. That's all. Also, to what Tideflyer said, I'm not really that frustrated. I'm just saying what's going on. If I tell you that there's a political agenda behind a speech made by a politician, it doesn't mean I'm sitting here stewing over it, I'm just pointing it out. What annoys me though, is that some people want us to pretend we don't see what's going on. We do though. I'm not going to lie about it.

I could break things down further though, because along with what RTR's post, I think there's more that can be explained and illustrated for those that didn't really watch at is played out. But, what did happen, and there's no questioning this... is Ole Miss went from a mediocre class to a fantastic class, and they closed on a bunch of guys that they weren't even in the picture on just a short while before hand in 2013. That's not just fishy, that's like watching the movie Blue Chips.

Last year Ole Miss has a class with a ranking of #21. Same coach, same guy who closed on all those 4 and 5 stars in 2013. Year before? 19? This year? 3 What changed? Well if one did believe Ole Miss was paying players, then the three 5 stars they got late in the 2013 class are declaring for the draft and coming off the books. So, Ole Miss is under the salary cap. Now that's just one tiny example, but you can just apply that one simple bit of logic to a lot of things that don't make sense when it comes to Ole Miss recruiting and suddenly it does. It's basically Occam's Razor. It is the simplest explanation to a lot of things.
 
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CrimsonEyeshade

Hall of Fame
Nov 6, 2007
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This isn't a court of law. Either you have common sense or you don't, I can't give it to you. There is a multitude of circumstantial evidence though, more than enough for any rational individual to draw the obvious conclusion.


Top 3 from the 2013 class:
Robert Nkemdiche DE Loganville, GA (362 miles away) 5 Star
Laremy Tunsil OL Lake City, FL (586 miles away) 5 Star
Laquon Treadwell WR Crete, IL (589 miles away) 5 Star

None of those guys grew up dreaming about playing for Ole Miss. All of those guys declared for the draft first chance they got. Is this year any different? Here's the 5 stars:
Gregory Little OL Allen, TX (527 miles away) 5 Star
Shea Patterson QB Bradenton, FL (792 miles away) 5 Star
You kind of proved the point with what you said though, because Ole Miss is building their classes around guys who for the most part have no other obvious reason to want to be there.

Nkemdiche was a lock to Ole Miss from the time his brother signed there. His parents, especially mom, made it clear she wanted the sons playing together, even if her favorite school was Alabama.

Tunsil's girlfriend got a scholarship. We were accused of using a girlfriend to land a certain safety out of New Orleans a few years back.

On Patterson, why wouldn't a stud quarterback not want to play for Freeze when that position does everything for a dynamic offense? By the way, he's from LA, not Florida. Gee, given how LSU develops QBs, why wouldn't he want to go there? Must be because Ole Miss paid him.

Maybe they're cheating or maybe Freeze is good at what he does. I don't really care.

But given everything we've accomplished, given how far we've set ourselves apart, why is it that at moments like this we sound like everybody else -- that the only reason we lose at anything is because the other school cheats.
 
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bamablood6

1st Team
Mar 27, 2006
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Freeze is a good used car salesman, he will beg you, pressure you and tell you anything you want to hear to get you in the car. He makes promises and he will beg you until you give in. And if incentives happen to fall your way then so be it. The guy has a good spill going, but if he don't produce at least a SEC CG appearance soon, that spill is not going to continue to work. You can only use beating big bad Alabama and Nick Saban so long, because history has proven that won't last very much longer.

Their walk of champions is a joke as it should only be a few bricks on the sidewalk. They still can't even use a SEC West Championship as one of the bricks!

So he can go sign The NE Patriots for all I care.
 

ptw1961

1st Team
Dec 8, 2011
793
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You do understand that proof is next to impossible to provide- except the fact that Laremy Tunsil was driving 3 different vehicles during his time in Oxford and his mother and step dad moved from Florida and had jobs waiting for them in Oxford and have lived there the whole time he has been as Ole Miss. Treadwell ( who is from Chicago) committed to Ole Miss before ever visiting the campus. I could go on- but it seems you want nothing but hard core gotcha evidence.
OK, fine. Show us the evidence. You may certainly be correct. But until it`s presented, those who throw around the Ole Mi$$ moniker are in the same boat as the fans of other schools who accuse us of exactly the same thing. I`m as frustrated as anyone. And believe it or not, I ask the same questions as everyone else. I just haven`t seen the proof of what many seem so obviously convinced.
 

ptw1961

1st Team
Dec 8, 2011
793
0
0
I notice you have no explanation for Treadwell coming from Chicago to Oxford. And the fact that Nkemdiche's father took a rather high paying job at the University of Mississippi Hospital several months before Robert signed with the Rebels. I guess that is all a coincidence as well.
Nkemdiche was a lock to Ole Miss from the time his brother signed there. His parents, especially mom, made it clear she wanted the sons playing together, even if her favorite school was Alabama.

Tunsil's girlfriend got a scholarship. We were accused of using a girlfriend to land a certain safety out of New Orleans a few years back.

On Patterson, why wouldn't a stud quarterback not want to play for Freeze when that position does everything for a dynamic offense? By the way, he's from LA, not Florida. Gee, given how LSU develops QBs, why wouldn't he want to go there? Must be because Ole Miss paid him.

Maybe they're cheating or maybe Freeze is good at what he does. I don't really care.

But given everything we've accomplished, given how far we've set ourselves apart, why is it that at moments like this we sound like everybody else -- that the only reason we lose at anything is because the other school cheats.
 

Special K

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Feb 8, 2008
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I believe Hugh Freeze would recruit well anywhere. I live in Miss. I know several high school coaches; they all like him. I have a friend who coaches at a big school in Alabama; he says Freeze is very well liked. He is a Bama fan and says Freeze is one of the best he is seen with the players.The players like him. He is genuinely friendly. Who knows if the alumni are finishing the deal with money; but I believe the recruits are drawn to Freeze. I don't believe Ole Miss is a threat to Bama in recruiting or anything else, but they have a head coach, for now, who can recruit.
I can confirm exactly what you say here. I've got family in HS coaching that say almost verbatim what you laid out here. Freeze is regarded as a nice guy, well-liked by players and HS coaches alike.

Having said that, there might be some fishy stuff going on - in fact it's very likely and their boosters have a slimy history going way back. But don't discount Freeze as a recruiter in his own right, what TideWatcher is telling you here is 100% spot on.
 

KrAzY3

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I just wanted to say this about Freeze, none of my observations in terms of players being bought really have any direct connection to Freeze. One can debate if he knows or not, but the simple fact is he need not be involved in either case. The pertinent question though is if he's such a great guy and such a great recruiter, but does he really only get his mojo every now and then? Why not in 2012, 2014, and 2015? What happened to it then, where did it go?

To give an example, the two teams ahead of Ole Miss this year are LSU and Ohio State. We know Les and Urban can recruit, but they don't take years off like Hugh does, they recruit well almost all the time, not just some years. 2015 they were 8 and 9, while Ole Miss was down at 21 (behind Arizona St. and South Carolina). 2014? Well the awesome recruiter Hugh was 19th, below UCLA and Kentucky, while LSU was 2 and Ohio State was 3. Then there's his magical 2013 season, which he closed strong. Ole Miss was 7, LSU was 6, Ohio State was 2. Make no mistake, pushing your way into the top 10 is an accomplishment and usually takes something special. Honestly I'm over simplying things, because it's just about the rankings, it's about who Ole Miss is getting and how they are getting them.

Now, the argument is basically that Hugh is just a great recruiter. Yeah ok, well great recruiters are great recruiters all the time, not some of the time... so he might be a great guy, and he might be a good recruiter, but there's no logical reason why he's an amazing recruiter every few years and the rest of the time he's not. None of this though is a personal shot at him, I have nothing again him, and the way things work now I have no doubt that no matter what he's not getting his hands dirty. In fact, I think he seemed as surprised as a lot of other observers with that 2013 class.

We can keep going in circles. No, I'm not going to be able to produce documentation. But on the other hand, people who are arguing that nothing fishy is going on can't just explain things away with partial explanations. You have to cover 2012-2016 when you discuss the recruiting prowess of Hugh Freeze. You can't just explain away one recruit or two, no one ever said they bought the entire class. You have to be able to provide a sound logical argument for how the class as a whole came together. And... mind you, if I see some other explanation that makes sense, I'll apologize and shut up about it. But... I seriously doubt that will happen because there's so much smoke that it's going to be hard to a hard sell to prove there's no fire.
 
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Redwood Forrest

Hall of Fame
Sep 19, 2003
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It helps to be likeable but I am with the crew who see a lot of curiosity at The Grove. After awhile I had to conclude this is one of those on-going wondrous coincidences ~ or cheating.
 

bamaslammer

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Last year Ole Miss has a class with a ranking of #21. Same coach, same guy who closed on all those 4 and 5 stars in 2013. Year before? 19? This year? 3 What changed? Well if one did believe Ole Miss was paying players, then the three 5 stars they got late in the 2013 class are declaring for the draft and coming off the books. So, Ole Miss is under the salary cap.
It's not a salary cap, what SEC school was recently under an NCAA investigation and had their left tackle suspended for nearly half a season for driving free cars etc.... That'd be the (reportedly squeaky clean Ole Miss) program. They couldn't get away with these tactics WHILE the ncaa was there. Now that they have left it's open up the flood gates.
 

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