NCAA to formally charge Ole Miss with rules violations (Freeze has resigned)

RTR91 · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

JessN said:
As a follow-up to some of the posts that came after mine, the NCAA of today is not the NCAA on the 1980s/1990s. I've got to admit, even with the number of people currently questioning Ole Miss' success (that's about as diplomatic as I can put it), I don't see this as a sure thing that Ole Miss will end up penalized for misdeeds. The NCAA is in a tough spot. For one thing, the NCAA isn't really in charge anymore; the Power 5 is. The NCAA is trying to walk a line between keeping lassos around the wild horses, while realizing what's paying the bills right now are those same wild horses. If the NCAA doesn't want to give a little bit of a gray area, the Power 5 leaving to form its own organization is a real possibility. We're not going back to the time when barely-trained investigators and officials with grudges played with the enforcement and infractions guidelines like they were some kind of toy.

On the other hand, teams that do something egregious -- Syracuse basketball, North Carolina, etc. -- must be punished to some degree to maintain the integrity of the organization. If the NCAA is going to take a NASCAR, "have at it, boys" attitude toward compliance, I would recommend Alabama get down and dirty with the rest of them. There's no sense in being the only do-gooder on the block if everyone else wants to be a villain.

Rodney Orr at TiderInsider mentioned a few weeks back that Ole Miss had likely received a letter. The Rebels were clearly trying to keep it under wraps until after Signing Day had passed, which means someone, likely at the NCAA itself, purposefully leaked this letter to do damage. That tells me the NCAA isn't going to let Ole Miss skate. How bad it gets is anyone's guess. It will depend on how much dirt the NCAA can dig up once they get on campus. They used old violations to get them to Oxford; now they've got to find new violations to really hammer the current regime. This is, incidentally, the same tactic the NCAA took against Alabama in 2000, when it used old violations (the Beamon case, Kenny Smith) to tie Albert Means to Bama's previous probation and make it a "pattern".

I'm not naive enough to think Bama doesn't already do some stuff already (just not to the extent Ole Miss has been doing it), but I'm with you. If they want to play this game, let's play the game.

KrAzY3 · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

The thing that upset me the most about how Auburn got away with the whole Cam thing, was that it declared open season on paying players. Make no mistake, the Cam situation and the Miami situation really emboldened Ole Miss and anyone who wants to take that approach. On one hand, it was demonstrated you can lawyer up and you might get away with it completely. On the other hand, you can have all the evidence handed to you, of some really serious violations and the NCAA of old is nowhere to be found. The reward outweighs the risk.

The worst part of all of this is it does in a way expose Alabama and the rest of the SEC. It makes it look like everyone is cheating, and it also puts out the notion that in order to keep up you have to cheat. It's dangerous because we never know when the NCAA is going to wake up and enforce their rules.

PitMaster · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

Cole Cubelic and Pat Forde tweeting about allegations involving the current staff

I hear that ole miss is not through getting mail from Indianapolis either

JBama_in_PCOLA · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

BamainBoston said:
But if you watch NASCAR, you know they say that until somebody really does "have at it," and then they slam them. Our luck, we'd be the one they'd make an example of.

And that's what I'm afraid of.

Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

im4uainva · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

BamainBoston said:
But if you watch NASCAR, you know they say that until somebody really does "have at it," and then they slam them. Our luck, we'd be the one they'd make an example of.

Again.

Gr8hope · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

BamainBoston said:
But if you watch NASCAR, you know they say that until somebody really does "have at it," and then they slam them. Our luck, we'd be the one they'd make an example of.

...and then it would be said, "See, they were cheating all along. That's how they won."
I would rather lose with integrity than win by cheating, but let's win...the right way.

CB4 · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

PitMaster said:
Cole Cubelic and Pat Forde tweeting about allegations involving the current staff

I hear that ole miss is not through getting mail from Indianapolis either

That is the fear of a relative that is an Ole Miss grad. He's more than a little apprehensive about what may "have come to light" while they were digging around the women's BB program, track, and then the Tunsil thing crops up.

RTR91 · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

Gr8hope said:
...and then it would be said, "See, they were cheating all along. That's how they won."
I would rather lose with integrity than win by cheating, but let's win...the right way.

I'll repeat what others have already said in numerous other threads - no FBS school is clean.

B1GTide · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

RTR91 said:
I'm not naive enough to think Bama doesn't already do some stuff already (just not to the extent Ole Miss has been doing it), but I'm with you. If they want to play this game, let's play the game.

My feelings about this align with my feelings about Lance Armstrong in cycling. Yeah, he cheated - but he cheated in a era in which it was impossible to win without cheating because everyone was cheating. That didn't help Lance - he has been stripped of everything and ostracized.

As long as Alabama and OSU can compete with the schools like Ole Miss without going that far, I would prefer not to try and match them. Because if the NCAA decides to change their policies again in the future, it will be to take down a big program that is on top, not an Ole Miss. Stay under the radar and let schools like Ole Miss steal a player here and there. It isn't helping. When was the last time they won the SEC?

TiderJack · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

B1GTide said:
My feelings about this align with my feelings about Lance Armstrong in cycling. Yeah, he cheated - but he cheated in a era in which it was impossible to win without cheating because everyone was cheating. That didn't help Lance - he has been stripped of everything and ostracized.

As long as Alabama and OSU can compete with the schools like Ole Miss without going that far, I would prefer not to try and match them. Because if the NCAA decides to change their policies again in the future, it will be to take down a big program that is on top, not an Ole Miss. Stay under the radar and let schools like Ole Miss steal a player here and there. It isn't helping. When was the last time they won the SEC?

As RTR91 said cheating goes on everywhere with varying levels of cheating. With that said we seem to be doing just fine at the level we are at and don't need to stoop to others like OM/Barn level. The risk/reward is not worth it with the way we are currently recruiting. When Saban retires we may need to keep up with the Jones but until then........

crimsonaudio · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

RTR91 said:
I'll repeat what others have already said in numerous other threads - no FBS school is clean.

A few of my friends who are fans of other SEC schools have a running joke, "every school cheats but mine"...

CB4 · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

crimsonaudio said:
A few of my friends who ar fans of other SEC schools have a running joke, "every school cheats but mine"...

Kind of like being pulled over by the cop for doing 75 mph in a 65 mph zone and saying "yeah but did you see that maniac ahead me? He was doing at least 85."

Yeah, I'm guilty but not as guilty as the other guy. Sort of like being "a little bit pregnant".:biggrin:

Highway59 · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

I understand the frustration with the appearance being that other institutions are bending the rules left
and right, while it seems we have a group of leaders at Alabama that are doing best to work within the
rules that are set out. But we are still beating them on the recruiting trail day in and day out for athletes.
More important I would think than the NCAA finally stepping in if we started bending the rules, it would be the loss of integrity that you have as you make appeal to the prospective student/athlete and his or her guardians that you will not only help the student maximize their athletic talent, but also help them reach their full potential as good rounded human beings. It would be hard for me as a parent to feel comfortable with an individual that is trying to entice my kid with means that would be considered to be under the table so to speak. If you don't stoop to that level, and legitimately offer everything that that kid could expect from your institution of higher learning, the best academics, the best facility's, a fair opportunity to play, and the best staff to help kid to reach his or hers full potential, well that would serve as good litmus test for the quality of the student/athlete, and the people in charge of the program. If cheating on your part is required to get that particular student, well maybe that particular person is not quite the type of influence you want to have around your program. When you honestly try to get them to give a little more effort in classroom and on practice field, well it would probably ring real hollow if your first contact with them had been taking the easy well traveled way......

TideEngineer08 · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

B1GTide said:
My feelings about this align with my feelings about Lance Armstrong in cycling. Yeah, he cheated - but he cheated in a era in which it was impossible to win without cheating because everyone was cheating. That didn't help Lance - he has been stripped of everything and ostracized.

As long as Alabama and OSU can compete with the schools like Ole Miss without going that far, I would prefer not to try and match them. Because if the NCAA decides to change their policies again in the future, it will be to take down a big program that is on top, not an Ole Miss. Stay under the radar and let schools like Ole Miss steal a player here and there. It isn't helping. When was the last time they won the SEC?

I don't even care that they've beaten us two years in a row. Both years we won the SEC and went to the playoffs and won it all this year. I literally laugh any time I see an Ole Miss fan crowing about their winning streak over us. I laugh and laugh and laugh.

Ole Man Dan · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

chuxlee said:
the reason th barn got away with it, was due to them paying a ton of money to lawyers to squeeze the ncaa.... Teaching all other schools on how to do it.. Expect Ole Miss to follow suit.

Same lawyers pretty much squashed investigations of wrongdoings at other SEC schools too.
Things quickly went from Charges to prove it. No cooperation with the NCAA and, like SCAM, you know it happened, everybody winks about it, nothing much can happen because after they lawyer up, the NCAA has been pretty toothless.

PitMaster · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

CB4 said:
That is the fear of a relative that is an Ole Miss grad. He's more than a little apprehensive about what may "have come to light" while they were digging around the women's BB program, track, and then the Tunsil thing crops up.

If they are cheating in women's basketball and track, you think for a millisecond they AINT cheating in football?

PitMaster · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

Ole Man Dan said:
Same lawyers pretty much squashed investigations of wrongdoings at other SEC schools too.
Things quickly went from Charges to prove it. No cooperation with the NCAA and, like SCAM, you know it happened, everybody winks about it, nothing much can happen because after they lawyer up, the NCAA has been pretty toothless.

Difference here is they already have the Tunsil thing, and I think they are getting solid info outside oxford. Remember the mystery 4 week suspension of Bo?

B1GTide · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

Ole Man Dan said:
Same lawyers pretty much squashed investigations of wrongdoings at other SEC schools too.
Things quickly went from Charges to prove it. No cooperation with the NCAA and, like SCAM, you know it happened, everybody winks about it, nothing much can happen because after they lawyer up, the NCAA has been pretty toothless.

My long standing concern is that they really don't have to prove anything. All that they have to do is conclude that cheating took place. They can do with based on the word of a witness who is never identified, and evidence that is never presented to the school to refute/disprove. This is not a judicial process with oversight. This is a back room process heavily influenced by politics.

If they want to slam Ole Miss, they will, and there is nothing that Ole Miss can do about it.

crimsonaudio · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

B1GTide said:
My long standing concern is that they really don't have to prove anything. All that they have to do is conclude that cheating took place. They can do with based on the word of a witness who is never identified, and evidence that is never presented to the school to refute/disprove. This is not a judicial process with oversight. This is a back room process heavily influenced by politics.

If they want to slam Ole Miss, they will, and there is nothing that Ole Miss can do about it.

You're speaking to Alabama fans here - we've witnessed this first-hand...

Gr8hope · Feb 2, 2016

Re: Yahoo Sources: NCAA to formally charge Mississippi with rules violations

RTR91 said:
I'll repeat what others have already said in numerous other threads - no FBS school is clean.

If we are talking about $100 handshakes or buying kids food, clothes, or furniture, I have no problem with that, even if it happens at Auburn. I even understand a leg up for a parent's employment in the university town to be near his son, as long as the salary is not inflated to get the recruit. Paying thousands of dollars to turn a kid's commitment is shameful and should not be tolerated. I hope Bama doesn't do that kind of thing.

NCAA to formally charge Ole Miss with rules violations (Freeze has resigned)

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