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NCAA to formally charge Ole Miss with rules violations (Freeze has resigned)

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B1GTide

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CrimsonProf said:
I back you in theory but this could open up a very ugly can of worms.
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All of this is pretty ugly. But if we even pretend to want justice here or anywhere else, we have to be willing to let people face their accusers. It creates an environment in which people are less willing to testify, but it also creates a system that somewhat protects us from false accusations.
 
KrAzY3

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B1GTide said:
I believe that you should have a right to face your accusers and cross-examine them. These are not random witnesses. Their allegations are serious.

ETA - Remember Fulmer during the Means fiasco? Wouldn't you have liked to have had the opportunity to challenge his testimony?
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I think qualifiers are important, but remember how the NCAA works. They can't compel testimony, and in the case of Fulmer he never really had any business giving testimony. How on earth could he possibly have witnessed or somehow participated in Alabama breaking the rules? That was a joke.

However, the fact that a student athlete who has nothing really to gain can basically be harassed and sued because he told the truth? Come on, that's disgusting, and no this isn't a court of law. No one is going to jail, Ole Miss does not deserve protections of a court of law anymore than they can be held accountable in that manner.

What Ole Miss and their buddies are doing is harassment and intimidation of witnesses. These are college kids, and a university and their buddies are going after them, for just saying what was done. That's not cool, nope, never will be, not acceptable, end of story.
 
Gr8hope

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An NCAA hearing is not a court of law. Not sure Ole Miss has any rights not granted by the committee.
 
B1GTide

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KrAzY3 said:
What Ole Miss and their buddies are doing is harassment and intimidation of witnesses. These are college kids, and a university and their buddies are going after them, for just saying what was done. That's not cool, nope, never will be, not acceptable, end of story.
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No one has argued otherwise. Disgusting. But they should be able to cross-examine them.
 
TideEngineer08

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KrAzY3 said:
I think qualifiers are important, but remember how the NCAA works. They can't compel testimony, and in the case of Fulmer he never really had any business giving testimony. How on earth could he possibly have witnessed or somehow participated in Alabama breaking the rules? That was a joke.
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This always burned me up. They were taking hearsay from Fulmer and using it as evidence. All the while looking the other way with regards to Tennessee's shenanigans. That was why there was so much stirred up in the aftermath of that ordeal.

This situation is different, as you say, where we have legit witnesses to the wrong doing.
 
KrAzY3

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B1GTide said:
No one has argued otherwise. Disgusting. But they should be able to cross-examine them.
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I suppose it is the context that matters a lot for me. If this wasn't a pattern of personally going after the witnesses, I'd kind of get it, but these guys are being sued and if you're a college kid getting sued that's kind of a big deal. But from what I'm understanding, Ole Miss has no actual right to this and they lost the benefit of a doubt in the matter a while ago. There is no need to let them abuse the victims, which let's be clear here, the entire thing will be badgering them over their recollection of an event that took place several years ago.

The key is really simple. Where they given items? They say yes. That is all that actually matters! That's the violation! What Ole Miss and their supporters want to do is badger them about other minor inconsistencies in order to make them look bad. I can't perfectly remember anything from years ago, I doubt anyone here but Selma can, but at this point Ole Miss is just trying to destroy these guys. All of this mind you, with the backdrop of Tunsil's own admission he was getting paid. We know Ole Miss was playing players. They're just trying to scare and punish witnesses. It's no different than some mafia guy putting out hits on witnesses at this point, and no more noble.
 
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Is MSU allowed to assist these with representation? If not; how do they fund a defense attorney?
 
bamamc1

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KrAzY3 said:
I suppose it is the context that matters a lot for me. If this wasn't a pattern of personally going after the witnesses, I'd kind of get it, but these guys are being sued and if you're a college kid getting sued that's kind of a big deal. But from what I'm understanding, Ole Miss has no actual right to this and they lost the benefit of a doubt in the matter a while ago. There is no need to let them abuse the victims, which let's be clear here, the entire thing will be badgering them over their recollection of an event that took place several years ago.

The key is really simple. Where they given items? They say yes. That is all that actually matters! That's the violation! What Ole Miss and their supporters want to do is badger them about other minor inconsistencies in order to make them look bad. I can't perfectly remember anything from years ago, I doubt anyone here but Selma can, but at this point Ole Miss is just trying to destroy these guys. All of this mind you, with the backdrop of Tunsil's own admission he was getting paid. We know Ole Miss was playing players. They're just trying to scare and punish witnesses. It's no different than some mafia guy putting out hits on witnesses at this point, and no more noble.
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I guess they need to also bring in Bo Scarbrough and let him explain why he was suspended the first 4 games of his freshman year as well. Although I've heard only rumors, it seems that it had something to do with Ole Miss and his recruitment.
 
B1GTide

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KrAzY3 said:
I suppose it is the context that matters a lot for me. If this wasn't a pattern of personally going after the witnesses, I'd kind of get it, but these guys are being sued and if you're a college kid getting sued that's kind of a big deal. But from what I'm understanding, Ole Miss has no actual right to this and they lost the benefit of a doubt in the matter a while ago. There is no need to let them abuse the victims, which let's be clear here, the entire thing will be badgering them over their recollection of an event that took place several years ago.

The key is really simple. Where they given items? They say yes. That is all that actually matters! That's the violation! What Ole Miss and their supporters want to do is badger them about other minor inconsistencies in order to make them look bad. I can't perfectly remember anything from years ago, I doubt anyone here but Selma can, but at this point Ole Miss is just trying to destroy these guys. All of this mind you, with the backdrop of Tunsil's own admission he was getting paid. We know Ole Miss was playing players. They're just trying to scare and punish witnesses. It's no different than some mafia guy putting out hits on witnesses at this point, and no more noble.
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Again, witness harassment of any type, at any level, is disgusting. You are preaching to the choir there. But do you just accept that these kids told the truth? Would you accept that if they were telling the same story about Alabama? I don't. People lie. Lots of reasons, but you can't escape it - people lie.

You have a right to face your accuser. Even if you are a complete jerk, you still have that right. And I don't mean a legal right, but as a matter of principle - no accusation should be allowed to go unchallenged. Even if the accusation fits our world view - maybe especially if an accusation fits our world view.
 
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Ole Man Dan

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B1GTide said:
I don't see Freeze getting a show cause for this, so he will keep his mouth shut to protect himself and his future earnings. The NCAA doesn't have a smoking gun showing that Freeze was directly involved in any of this, and they can't prove that he is lying about any of this. That is what the NCAA has required in the past to play that card. So, as things stand now, the Freeze firing will not impact the NCAA findings nor will it change how Ole Miss responds.
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Remember what happened to OJ. Didn't get him for one thing, but threw the book at him for another. Maybe KARMA, or were they on 'DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION'? Guess we will find out about the time the season begins. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of the Ole Sis version of DELTA HOUSE... ;)
 
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Lindsey Miller rips Rebel Rags



Lindsey Miller denied any participation in the Great Maroon Conspiracy. Rebel Rags sued Mississippi State football players Leo Lewis and Kobe Jones for defamation in Lafayette County Circuit Court on June 9. The complaint also named Lindsey Miller and several John Does as defendants. Lindsey Miller is the stepfather of Laremy Tunsil. A NCAA Notice of Allegations charged that an unnamed Ole Miss booster gave free merchandise to two unnamed players in violation of NCAA guidelines. The President of Rebel Rags, Terry Warren, didn't take kindly to such allegations and made his displeasure quite known in the complaint.

Mr. Miller filed a motion to dismiss on July 6, while the two players filed motions to sever each one from the other defendants. Rebel Rags responded with a massive 389-page barrage of arguments and exhibits on July 21. Mr. Miller responded today with a response to the Rebel Rags response to his motion to dismiss the Rebel Rags complaint. (Not quite as good as saying cash is as good as money but I tried.)

Rebel Rags argued the discovery rule supported its defamation claim. The discovery rule states the statute of limitations doesn't begin to run on a claim until when a victim knew or should have known that he had a cause of action due to the injury. Rebel Rags claimed it was the victim of lies and conspiracy among the defendants, but didn't learn of the alleged wrongdoing until the NCAA issued its amended notice of allegations on February 22, 2017.

Lindsey Miller said that 389-page Briefbuster was a nice shot but you missed me. He argued the two exhibits included in the response were absent from the complaint and thus should be excluded. Mr. Miller presents the normal defense used in such responses: the complaint doesn't state a claim upon which relief can be granted. Rebel Rags rests its complaint on the argument that some John Does put Lindsey Miller up to lying to the NCAA about Rebel Rags after July, 2015. No actual date is cited, just a time frame of a little more than eighteen months. However, Rebel Rags says it didn't know of the allegations until after February 22, 2017. Mr. Miller's attorney, Matt Wilson, argues the discovery rule does not apply to civil conspiracy.
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selmaborntidefan

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Ole Man Dan said:
Remember what happened to OJ.
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"What happened" to OJ? Let's not pretend the criminal is a victim here.



Ole Man Dan said:
Didn't get him for one thing, but threw the book at him for another.
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He served 1/4 of his possible sentence and was paroled the very first time. Maybe next time he won't go robbing people.

Ole Man Dan said:
Maybe KARMA, or were they on 'DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION'? Guess we will find out about the time the season begins. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of the Ole Sis version of DELTA HOUSE... ;)
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Pretty good man, pretty good.


But mentioning OJ in the same breath with Ole Miss......jeez man......
 
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