Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Briles Fired, AD and Starr Resigns)

selmaborntidefan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Side point as it has been brought up.

I'm not going to argue that Briles is not a skilled offensive mind, but let's be honest: Baylor's ascent to the top of the Big 12 has more to do with how weak the conference is than his pinball offense.


He took over a lousy program and had consecutive 4-8 seasons in 2008 and 2009.

They improved to 7-6 in 2010. How? Wake Forest was replaced on the schedule with Sam Houston State, Kansas replaced Nebraska (who had beaten Baylor in both 08 and 09) on the schedule, and Texas imploded.

Baylor got three more wins merely by virtue of their 'now softer than the last two years schedule.'

In 2011, the drew the TCU team that lost a bunch of seniors after the unbeaten Rose Bowl campaign and the Big 12 was weaker because Nebraska and Colorado had left for other conferences. Texas AGAIN was down. The Bears faced four ranked opponents and went 2-2 against them during a 10-3 campaign. But this WAS a talented and good Baylor team despite some of those advantages and besides - they still had to actually win the games on the field.

Their regression to 8-5 coincided with the loss of RG3 and a MUCH tougher schedule. But they did have one great game, their rout of Kansas State that brought Alabama out of the coffin and into the national title picture just one week after the loss to JF2.

(Speaking of that....did I mention that suddenly ATM was off the schedule in 2012????? A team that beat Baylor by four touchdowns during RG3's Heisman campaign)

So Baylor now has replaced Colorado, Nebraska, Texas A/M and Missouri (who, in fairness, they'd actually beaten starting in 2009) - teams that usually would leave them at 1-3 at best, with TCU and WVA plus cupcakes from out of conference (Wofford, Buffalo, ULM in 2013, for example), Texas regressed so badly they basically fired Mack Brown, and they got an off week right after a cush game against Kansas before playing OU, while the Sooners were slugging it out with a better Texas Tech team (although they, too, had the same time off).

The data is somewhat mixed. Baylor was a talented team in 2014, for example, but their schedule again was suffering from a lack of playing double digit win teams

Furthermore, look at their performance in bowl games, where they don't get to hand pick the opponent:

2010 - blowout loss to Illinois
2011 - beat Washington, 67-56, in a game where both teams didn't even put a defense on the field
2012 - beat UCLA by three TDs
2013 - lost by ten to UCF
2014 - lost to Michigan State in a great game
2015 - beat North Carolina by 11

So during this great run, they're 3-3, their conference got substantially weaker, and they leavened up the early schedule with cupcakes - plus, Texas has not been anything near what they were prior to "Colt getting hurt."

Again, I don't totally dismiss Briles' role in their ascendancy. He clearly was/is the leading figure that masterminded it. But it was also accomplished with smoke and mirrors.

It just looks eerily similar to what made Rich Rodriguez look like a really good coach prior to 2008. (His rise coincided with the Big East losing Miami, Syracuse, and Va Tech......and the notion he had 'laid the wood to the SEC' (as Cowherd said) by going 3-0 against Miss St and UGA; of course, UGA has a long history of laying eggs on the big stage so take that for what it was worth).
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Seems like an almost lateral move for Herman. I suspect if he waits a year or two one of the BIG jobs will open up and he's probably at the top of everyone's list right now.
Herman isn't going to Baylor. Baylor is about to be irrelevant again, other than the criminal proceedings that are going to be occurring in Waco. I suspect the NCAA may come visit them along the same lines as PSU.
 

RTR91

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Forgot about it until this morning - Briles' daughter is married to the passing game coordinator. So his son and son-in-law are still on staff. Will be curious to see if they stay for this upcoming season or decide they don't like the treatment of Art.
 

KrAzY3

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Briles could well be the best offensive mind in all of football.

"Briles took a program that had done next to nothing in the Big 12, went 4-8 in each of his first two seasons, and then cranked up the offense to a historic level.
I think that's a fair thing to say, but RG3 aside, it is worth noting though that the best seasons (I know the quote isn't your own) happened during a power vacuum in the Big 12. He was already on the rise (after a 7 win season), but this first 10 win season occurred after Nebraska and Colorado left. I'm not sure how immediate the impact was, but it had to be nice to get Nebraska out of the way and Nebraska became far less of a player in Texas recruiting after that as well.

In 2012 though, they lost Texas A&M and Missouri, and that's when Art Briles and Baylor really got going. Art Briles was 1-3 against Texas A&M and he was 0-2 against Nebraska. So, getting them out of the way not only improved his record but made winning the conference that much easier. I can't say how that might have impacted scoring, though Nebraska was stingy by Big 12 standards. A mediocre Texas made things quite a bit easier as well. So, I never was as big a fan of Art as some people. He obviously was a talented coach I put him more in the Bobby Petrino category. Baylor was playing a weak(ened) schedule which made what they did look better than it actually was.

My prediction is Tom Herman.
The question his how deep do they bury the program and there's other factors to. Though I don't think they are serious candidates, Houston is on the list of potential Big 12 additions anyway, for instance.
 
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Displaced Bama Fan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Art's daughter made the mistake of posting her thoughts on Facebook. Probably the best for everyone if family kept quiet for a few days until things settled.


Staley - Your father promoted a "rape" culture among the team, knowing good and well he was bringing verified thugs that other schools were releasing. You should be completely and utterly ashamed what your father did by trying to sweep all of this under the rug and not protecting the young women of Baylor.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Seems like an almost lateral move for Herman. I suspect if he waits a year or two one of the BIG jobs will open up and he's probably at the top of everyone's list right now.

I figure he takes LSU, if they finally lose their minds this year and throw Les out to pasture or possibly ATM, since Sumlin is on a hot seat himself.

And Texas might actually open up if Charlie doesn't get it going this year. Other places I could see him include Arizona State or Nebraska. Or Ohio State if Urban suddenly has a two-loss campaign followed by another 'heart episode.'
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Forgot about it until this morning - Briles' daughter is married to the passing game coordinator. So his son and son-in-law are still on staff. Will be curious to see if they stay for this upcoming season or decide they don't like the treatment of Art.
I'm going with "Not for much longer."
 

RTR91

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Herman isn't going to Baylor. Baylor is about to be irrelevant again, other than the criminal proceedings that are going to be occurring in Waco. I suspect the NCAA may come visit them along the same lines as PSU.
I've seen this thought process around many places. It's not going to happen, though. The NCAA had to take back the PSU punishment after the courts said it had no jurisdiction.

What NCAA rule did Baylor break?
 

Catfish

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

My prediction is Tom Herman.
Maybe. But, I heard one of the ESPN talking heads being interviewed on the radio around the time everybody's spring practices ended, talking about the upcoming season. They asked him how long they thought Herman would be at Houston. He said that "scuttlebutt" was that somebody had assured Herman that a certain job was his barring an almost impossible turnaround by the current holder of that job. I took that to mean Texas, but that's just my guess. Herman would do a great job at Baylor, but personally I can't see him taking the Baylor job with all the garbage going on now. And, whatever other obstacle might be put in the way before it's all over.
 

4Q Basket Case

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I've seen this thought process around many places. It's not going to happen, though. The NCAA had to take back the PSU punishment after the courts said it had no jurisdiction.

What NCAA rule did Baylor break?

Careful...I asked the same question when the PSU stuff was happening, and a lot of people here (not all, but a decided majority) thought I was being light on child molestation.

I felt then, and still feel, that PSU's wrongdoings were for the civil and criminal courts to punish in the severest manner possible. But that doesn't make it an NCAA question. Same thing with Baylor and Briles, and whoever else might be found to have covered up criminal acts.

You and I agree. But many here don't, and want to see the bad guys punished however and by whomever possible.

From what's come out in the news, I think Baylor might be financially crippled by civil judgments, and a few individuals might end up in prison. And I would view that as a just outcome. But I don't see it as an NCAA question, and the precedent set by their actions against PSU chilled me.
 

bamamc1

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I've seen this thought process around many places. It's not going to happen, though. The NCAA had to take back the PSU punishment after the courts said it had no jurisdiction.

What NCAA rule did Baylor break?
Well I would think that players being allowed to not be charged with rape would be an extra "benefit" not available to other students. I mean I think rape is far more serious than extra textbooks. Also, like in the case of Jamise Winston, how could he afford an attorney?
 

KrAzY3

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Why haven't more football coaches been fired? They all had a part in it yet most still have a job.
I'm kind of waiting to see what else Baylor does. I will reiterate I'm not as well educated on this issues as some others, but giving Starr a new job and firing Briles in and of itself isn't enough. I'll have to look into it at detail but so far the steps they took are commendable (in contrast with the lack of action elsewhere) but they darn sure shouldn't be done yet.
 

RTR91

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Why haven't more football coaches been fired? They all had a part in it yet most still have a job.
I believe they are keeping the staff around just for this season and then do the ultimate clean sweep.
 

B1GTide

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I believe they are keeping the staff around just for this season and then do the ultimate clean sweep.
If their next head coach has an ounce of integrity, he will clean house.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

Maybe. But, I heard one of the ESPN talking heads being interviewed on the radio around the time everybody's spring practices ended, talking about the upcoming season. They asked him how long they thought Herman would be at Houston. He said that "scuttlebutt" was that somebody had assured Herman that a certain job was his barring an almost impossible turnaround by the current holder of that job. I took that to mean Texas, but that's just my guess. Herman would do a great job at Baylor, but personally I can't see him taking the Baylor job with all the garbage going on now. And, whatever other obstacle might be put in the way before it's all over.
He has Texas connections. I agree that Strong is probably in over his head at UT. TPTB didn't want him so he was literally behind the 8 ball from the start. Too bad, because he is a good coach. I still contend (and not to derail this thread), Strong should have waited one more year and the Florida job was all but his. Oh well.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Re: Baylor needs to hire some good lawyers (Update: Art Briles fired)

I can't blame a daughter for defending her dad, even if I don't agree with her.
I think it depends on what she's defending him on. He was importing thugs that other schools dismissed only to have them commit violent crimes against women. It's hard to defend that. Just my .02.
 

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