Convention of States

Tidewater

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They can be recalled, that's true. (You are living in a fantasy world if you think anyone's going to jail for what happens at a convention). Which is probably why they'd invoke a secrecy provision, just like the Founders did, to prevent something like that from happening why they work.
That may be the next fight.
If a Convention happens (with a secrecy provision), then I would instruct the delegate to remain in place and vote no on everything that comes up until the secrecy provision is lifted.
And do you believe that a secrecy provision would hold up in this day and age? The Founders were gentlemen. When they promised not to divulge the dealings of the Convention, they generally kept their word.
We live in a world with Democrats. They did not.
If secrecy is enjoined, I would direct the Virginia delegate to vote against secrecy, and then take out his iphone, set it on the table and record all day every day and then "accidentally" release the entire recording every night, or, failing that, to take copious written notes and "accidentally" release the notes every night.

What court would prosecute a delegate to a Convention of States for violating an injunction of secrecy that he had voted against?
 

Tidewater

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I have enormous respect for Forrest McDonald, but this was $16 trillion ago.
And before the Federal judiciary ruled the Virginia Constitution unconstitutional, before the "Obamacare is a tax except when it isn't a tax" ruling, etc., etc.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge since 1987.
So, which court could hear a case brought against a delegate for violating an injunction of secrecy in a Convention of the States?
 

Tidewater

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So you acknowledge that unlike the founding generation, the people who would show up at this convention can't be trusted. And yet you want to trust them with the Constitution.
No, just insurance. I do not have insurance on my car because I am planning on having an accident.
The Founders did not take precautions against Jimmy M & Co. in 1787, because they did not imagine the Convention would go as far as they did. The Founders themselves assuage their guilt by assuring themselves that the resulting document would have to be referred back to the people (the fountain of all power" Jimmy called them) before it became valid. James Wilson noted that "The House on fire must be extinguished, without a scrupulous regard to ordinary rights." In other words, he knew they were not empowered to scrap the AOC and start anew, but they did it anyway.
I think this time, forewarned is forearmed. If I was a Virginia Delegate, I'd support making violation of instructions a Class I felony. I take fidelity and subordination that seriously. To show their moderation, they settled on Class V, plus recall.
I challenge your premise, though. Nothing that comes out of this could be anything but an amendment sent to the states for ratification. And it would take 38 state to take effect.
But to answer your concern, I'm afraid we have to. The current trajectory is destruction. If we were running a half trillion dollar surplus each year, then Federal overreach would be a serious nuisance, we could wait on voters to wake up to the danger they are in, but not necessitating an Article V Convention.
Federal overreach, minus $19 trillion, changes the calculus a bit.
So, which court would be competent to try a delegate for violating an injunction of secrecy?
 

Tide1986

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So which court do you think is going to uphold a prior restraint on a delegate's political speech?
Assuming the state and each delegate execute an agreement specifying the consideration provided by each party, I suspect there might be a court or two that would uphold the restraint on speech (the restraint being a part of the delegate's consideration).
 
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bamacon

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So you acknowledge that unlike the founding generation, the people who would show up at this convention can't be trusted. And yet you want to trust them with the Constitution.
Considering it is being ignored at best and usurped at its worst every day I don't see the argument for not challenging the status quo. It seems like with most things D.C. those against are against it solely because it is a threat to their most cherished prize...power.


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Tidewater

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So you acknowledge that unlike the founding generation, the people who would show up at this convention can't be trusted. And yet you want to trust them with the Constitution.
Thinking about this over the weekend and if somehow, the delegates to an Article V convention were to resolve themselves into a Constitutional Convention a la 1787, and they were to draft a left-wing loony Constitution guaranteeing unlimited amounts of money to everybody for life or outlawing private property or whatever, and they retained something like Article VII of the current Constitution, all you would have to do is be one of the 12 states to decline to ratify and you'd be free of the offending new Constitution.
 

Tidewater

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There was one senator holding it up. I guess he relented. Same thing is happening in Arizona.
In Virginia, the John Birch Society has come out in force alleging that this will be a run-away convention, completely changing the constitution to one that outlaws guns substitute sharia law for the Constitution, blah, blah, blah.
The Virginia Bill (HJ3) orders Virginia's delegation to follow instructions from the General Assembly, and contains a recall provision, if the delegate votes in any way against the instructions of the General Assembly, and a companion bill makes it a Class V felony to vote against the instructions of General Assembly (I would have gone for something much stronger but that comes from my sense of subordination to constituted authorities, especially in matters of constitution-making).
 

cuda.1973

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In Virginia, the John Birch Society has come out in force alleging that this will be a run-away convention, completely changing the constitution to one that outlaws guns substitute sharia law for the Constitution, blah, blah, blah.
Those chuckleheads are doing this all over the country. They really are clueless.
 

TIDE-HSV

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In Virginia, the John Birch Society has come out in force alleging that this will be a run-away convention, completely changing the constitution to one that outlaws guns substitute sharia law for the Constitution, blah, blah, blah.
The Virginia Bill (HJ3) orders Virginia's delegation to follow instructions from the General Assembly, and contains a recall provision, if the delegate votes in any way against the instructions of the General Assembly, and a companion bill makes it a Class V felony to vote against the instructions of General Assembly (I would have gone for something much stronger but that comes from my sense of subordination to constituted authorities, especially in matters of constitution-making).
So there's still a John Birch Society?
 

Tidewater

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http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/constitutional-convention-explainer/

(Whether it matters or not) Jeb Bush just endorsed the idea today in an article in the WSJ.

Prediction: An Article V Convention will occur long before the electoral college goes away.
It will be a topic of debate in the next Virginia legislature.
My Delegate and my Senator are both opposed to the idea (one of the few Republicans in the General Assembly to do so), so I have some work to do.
The most recent bill in Virginia directed the Virginia delegates to the convention to follow directions of the state legislature, directed the delegates to vote only for amendments that limit Federal power (term limits, balanced budget amendment), made it a criminal offense (a felony) to disregard such legislative instructions.
 

Tidewater

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Republican success opens door to amending US Constitution

The possibility of a convention dominated by delegates from a single party is "alarming," said Carolyn Fiddler, a spokeswoman for the national Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee."There are no rules. They can just throw out the whole Constitution if they want to," Fiddler said. "It's the wildest of Wild West situations."
Except Fiddler is simply wrong. Any change, in order to take effect, would require 38 state legislatures.
Virginia dealt with this issue when the Senate passed the call for a convention of states. Virginia delegates were to take their instructions form the General Assembly, to restrict the amendments to those limiting Federal power (such as a balanced budget amendment or congressional term limits), and made it a felony for the delegates to ignore instructions from the legislature.

It would be ironic if Obama's most lasting legacy was destroying the Democrat party to the point that an Article V convention restricting the power of the Federal government was possible. "Thanks Barack, for destroying your party. You may end up being a patriot after all, by accident."
 

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