Did I read the article wrong? Isn't the subject of the article a girl who identifies as a boy? Not sure of the reason for the eye roll. But my wife rolls her eyes at me all the time and I rarely know why. I'm good at that.
Will Further Perversions of Title IX Ruin Women’s Athletics?
- Thread starter Gr8hope
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You may not be aware, and some folks here may not care, but intentionally misgendering someone is considered quite disrespectful.
The person in the article was biologically born a girl. That is a scientific fact. So I don't think I'm the one "misgendering". Regarding being disrespectful. Considering some of your responses to others on this board over the years. I would reconsider preaching to someone about being disrespectful to others.
With all the cross dressing going on these days who can tell? Or do clothes make the man/woman?
I'm pretty sure there are boys who are the same size she is when she's not artificially enhancing herself. Most of them choose their sports or other hobbies accordingly at some point.
Pardon me. Maybe "it" would have been more appropriate.
Nevertheless, she is a girl notwithstanding her psychological issues; hence, the appropriate pronoun usage on my part.
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Sex and gender are different. Assuming you're not validating the genitals or birth certificate of everyone you encounter in life before assigning them a pronoun, you probably decide their gender by how they outwardly present themselves. Treating this group any differently is simply disrespectful.
I have no idea what your ad hominem is meant to reference. But if that's your opinion of me, I won't waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.
See, this is the fundamental issue - you believe that with all your heart, but until it's proved scientifically, a vast majority of people aren't going to buy it. Most people will continue to believe it's a mental issue.
IOW, you're fighting a unwinnable battle right now. Maybe where you live this is how people act, but in the rest of the world, there are two sexes, and sex and gender are the same thing.
sex
seks/Submit
noun
either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.
"adults of both sexes"
synonyms: gender
"adults of both sexes"
So you can preach about how disrespectful it is for most people to call a girl 'she' even if she 'identifies' as a boy, but it just makes you look odd (not to everyone, but to most people).
If you start calling people out for being disrespectful (which I take personally). Then expect the same measuring stick to be applied to you. To suggest you haven't been disrespectful in some of your responses over the years on this board is laughable. The majority of us have. I wasn't being disrespectful to this girl as you claim. My position on the subject dictates my response. She was born a girl so I refer to her as "She". I had no malicious or disrespectful intent behind it. I don't buy into biologically a female but since they identify as a male then they are a male and I should treat them as so. I don't play along with that game.
My nephew for years "identified" as a dolphin (I'm being serious). He had a "dolphin" name and wanted to be referred by that name. We (the family) refused to play along and continued to refer to him by his real name and treat him like what he was, a human boy. It wasn't until his mother was finally convinced he needed to be evaluated that she found out he had a mental illness. Rather than "a phase" he was going through. Until proven otherwise, this gender identity issue is considered a mental illness and I will treat it as such.
And for the record, no, my overall opinion of you isn't bad or negative. We just don't agree on some issues. But neither does my wife and I. :wink: :biggrin:
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I appreciate your response. To be clear, though, the APA defines chromosomal sex and gender identity separately rather than as interchangeable terms per common usage -- so that is not my construct, rather the determination of the scientific community. Of course, as you say, that doesn't mean everyone will accept it.
I don't have the time to wage a campaign here to change hearts and minds. But I'm going to guess that the people who so ardently push back against the very concept of transgender have never once had a deep and personal conversation with a transgender person.
You're right, I live in a city where the transgendered will openly talk about very personal issues, and people here will listen. I feel fortunate for that. We saw this same pattern of fear and rejection with gay marriage, until millions of conservative, anti-gay families (my own among them) had to come to terms with having a gay son or daughter, talk with them, and eventually realize their fears and preconceptions were unjustified.
I'm also a bit surprised by the pushback on disrespect. I think it's pretty self-evident, honestly. If you'd seen this guy wrestling on a men's youth team, no one would bat an eye. But once folks know he's transgender, you have grown adults going out of their way to insult a kid for his gender identity, some of whom apparently think it signals maturity to call this kid an "it." Personally, I think it's sad and childish, but I'm sure the same posters will continue.
Fair enough. That's some very broad criteria.
I'm glad you didn't intend the comment to be malicious. But to be clear, if you called this guy a "she" to his face, that would be an insult.
I certainly hope you can see the difference in these situations.
The APA and every majority psychiatric association has conclusively stated that this situation is not indicative of mental illness. Gender dysphoria is considered a stress-inducing mental condition that is caused by a transgender person being unable to correct their gender identity. The treatment is allowing them to proceed with gender identity conversion.
My issue is the fact he was taking hormones (or whatever the scientific term is), which gave him an advantage. Even if he had been allowed to wrestle in the boys division, I think the hormone boosts would have given him an unfair advantage, although I don't know all the rules about that or how these drugs work.
You are right Charmin, Gender dysphoria is a new term used in the latest Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). Dysphoria means stress and treatment is used to alleviate this stress. It is not considered a mental illness. Previously this was called Gender Identity Disorder which in earlier DSMs was considered a mental illness as was homosexuality.
Not sure exactly when these were no longer considered a mental illness. I think homosexuality was considered a mental disorder until about 20 years ago and Gender Identity Disorder until very recently.
The focus on therapy has changed from conversion to the norm to making the person comfortable with their feelings.
Not sure exactly when these were no longer considered a mental illness. I think homosexuality was considered a mental disorder until about 20 years ago and Gender Identity Disorder until very recently.
The focus on therapy has changed from conversion to the norm to making the person comfortable with their feelings.
Yeah, there are no rules for that. I'm not sure what his test levels would measure. I would speculate that they'd be somewhere in the range of normal rather than, say, akin to an athlete on anabolic steroids. But the range of normal is quite wide, so I'm not sure how good of a cutoff that is.
What are you thoughts on this? The ex-former naacp leader who is actually white yet identifies as black. In the article (and I've read other places where she continues to hold to her belief) she expresses that though her skin is white there is nothing about her that identifies with the white race. I'll let you read the rest of it to get her full story. But my question is, where is the line on this "born one way but identify another way" drawn and who draws it?
http://nypost.com/2015/06/16/ex-naacp-leader-race-questions-have-been-viciously-inhumane/
Maybe we need to create a couple of new pronouns for the transgendered - if you were born anatomically a female, you will now be known as "shem" and if you were born anatomically a male you will now be known as "shim." Same pronunciation, the spelling however, indicates your "birth." So Chaz Bono would be a "shem" and Bruce Jenner would be a "shim."
And shems and shims get their own bathroom and can't use the ladies or men's restrooms but, you don't get special designated "minority" class and insurance doesn't pay for your "re-assignment" surgery.
If shems and shims want to compete in athletics, they have to compete against one another and not normal, anatomically by birth athletes.
And shems and shims get their own bathroom and can't use the ladies or men's restrooms but, you don't get special designated "minority" class and insurance doesn't pay for your "re-assignment" surgery.
If shems and shims want to compete in athletics, they have to compete against one another and not normal, anatomically by birth athletes.
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