The Gary Johnson thread

Jon

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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...n-libertarian-debate-edit-20160805-story.html

For many Americans, this presidential race is a train wreck in progress.

CNN's latest poll says Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are viewed unfavorably by a majority of voters. A majority! Clinton's negative number is bad — 55 percent — but Trump's is catastrophic: 70 percent have an unfavorable opinion of him. The Pew Research Center says 4 in 10 voters find it hard to choose; they think neither would make a good president.

But if many Americans see their options as casting a hold-your-nose vote or staying home, others wonder about a third-party candidate. We saw that interest spike after a July 7 editorial exploring potential alternatives, as readers found their way to our website to learn about Gov. Gary Johnson of the Libertarian Party and Jill Stein of the Green Party.

By July 19 when Johnson, the leading third-party candidate, met with the Tribune Editorial Board, his CNN poll numbers had climbed to 13 percent. That visit, again, led to a bump in web traffic, social media "shares" and reader feedback. Voters want to know more.
 

NationalTitles18

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http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/poll-clinton-leads-trump-in-georgia-226711

In Georgia:

In a four-way ballot test, Clinton holds a 3-point lead over Trump, 41 percent to 38 percent, followed by 11 percent for the Libertarian ticket of Gary Johnson and Bill Weld and 2 percent for the Green Party's Jill Stein and Ajamu Baraka.

The poll was conducted via landlines and cellphones by Abt-SRBI from Aug. 1 to Aug. 4, surveying 847 registered voters, with a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.
Clinton holds a 4 point lead in Georgia head-to-head against Trump. Lead drops to 3 points with 3rd (and 4th) parties in the poll. Johnson continues to build momentum.
 

92tide

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NationalTitles18

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If this happens, it would be yuuuuuuge!

Of course, I don't have a clue who the sources this reporter is using are. Could be complete bunk, but the rumors have been swirling for over a week now.

http://www.smobserved.com/story/201...to-endorse-libertarian-gary-johnson/1713.html

Mitt Romney, George Bush 41 and George Bush 43, as well as other mainstream Republican party figures, are set to endorse Libertarian Presidential Candidate Gary Johnson next week, say sources within the "Never Trump" movement and other disaffected Republicans.
Johnson, the former Republican governor of New Mexico, is known for having balanced the budget during his 8 year tenure. The Libertarian's Vice presidential running mate is also a former Republican governor, William Weld of Massachusetts. No one within the Republican party is especially happy having to endorse businessman Donald Trump. Even Trump supporters such as Newt Gingrich have recently called for an "intervention" or reset of the floundering Trump campaign.
 

Jon

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given the responses on the trump thread when it was seen that something that johnson said may be construed as supporting black lives matter, there may be limited momentum coming.
that is such a sad statement, especially considering racism doesn't exist anymore
 

NationalTitles18

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given the responses on the trump thread when it was seen that something that johnson said may be construed as supporting black lives matter, there may be limited momentum coming.
http://www.inquisitr.com/3389257/ga...nald-trump-without-losing-his-sense-of-humor/

Libertarian Party presidential candidate Gary Johnson is ramping up the attacks on Republican nominee Donald Trump — and he is doing so in a manner which is as caustic as it is funny.
Johnson, whose poll numbers have shown a remarkable increase ever since the Republican National Convention drew to a close in late July, is hoping to make deeper inroads into the conservative voter base that has traditionally been a forte of Republican Party candidates. Trump’s recent antics of berating a Gold Star mother, coupled with his almost constant bashing of minorities, women and the Republican leadership, have meant that he has managed to isolate even sections of this conservative voter pool further away from him. And Johnson is making sure that he is at hand to benefit the most....

...It appears
this causticity is going to be a tool that both Gary Johnson, and his running mate William Weld, are going to put to optimum use on the campaign trail. For instance, when Weld was asked if he thought that #BlackLivesMatter was a legitimate movement, this is what he had to say.
“When the question is put from the leaders of that movement do black lives matter, the answer comes back loud and clear from the Republican Party, ‘All lives matter.’ Well they might as well say, ‘Up against the wall.'”
It's strange how Trump supporters can dismiss a few bad actors within their midst but hang a few bad actors around the neck of BLM in an attempt to lynch the movement in claiming it is not legitimate. Problem is, their candidate is a bad actor. I don't support everything everyone within BLM does. There are people within it that I believe are dangerous characters out to promote their own agenda using the sympathy garnered by the movement. Trump is a dangerous character all by himself and his supporters, well....they support him.

Gary Johnson admits there are problems with injustice within our society and our laws. He wants to improve the situation for black people, for police, and for society as a whole. AND he believes the best way to do this is through more freedom instead of through more and more and ever more overbearing liberty crunching gestapo tactics authoritarian government control.

If you think we don't have a race problem in American you are blind. If you think the roots of and the entire problem lies within the black community you are at the least stupid and at worst possibly a racist. You've probably been brainwashed by years and years of divisive political arguments that ignore the real problems and the real solutions and that actually are happy when we are divided until a token olive branch is extended at election time in a vain attempt at "outreach".

Johnson is the grown up in the room with his eyes open, able to discern that there is a problem and admit it and come to some conclusions that the problem needs addressed in a meaningful way for the good of everyone and he actually has some good ideas on how to at least partially achieve goals that would benefit most people in society.

But you Trump supporters just keep pushing for more "law and order", which is really a call for putting those people back in their place. Who do they think they are anyway?!

Just your fellow American citizens.

Gary Johnson can condemn is the strongest terms the unnecessary killings and imprisonment of blacks while at the same time condemning in the strongest terms killings of those charged with keeping our society open and civil because not only can he walk and chew gum at the same time but he can see the big picture and the details and see that using the police powers of the state illegitimately is as dangerous as blatant attacks on the police who enforce the law. All while respecting the people called upon to enforce those ill-conceived laws. There is no either-or to this. Neither-nor is not an option. The only way to go forward is just what Johnson proposes - addressing both (or all) issues pertaining to the problem.

I know it sounds crazy to some, but if you use reason and logic it is possible to get there. Using raw emotion and prejudice will take you somewhere else, as will pandering.

ETA: Not aimed at you '92 or anyone else in particular. Just my generalized observation of many people and sources.
 
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Tide1986

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http://www.inquisitr.com/3389257/ga...nald-trump-without-losing-his-sense-of-humor/

If you think we don't have a race problem in American you are blind. If you think the roots of and the entire problem lies within the black community you are at the least stupid and at worst possibly a racist. You've probably been brainwashed by years and years of divisive political arguments that ignore the real problems and the real solutions and that actually are happy when we are divided until a token olive branch is extended at election time in a vain attempt at "outreach".
What do you mean by "race problem"? And regarding this "race problem" is there a root? If so, what do you think it is? And more generally, what are the primary drivers of this "race problem" in your opinion?
 

92tide

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http://www.inquisitr.com/3389257/ga...nald-trump-without-losing-his-sense-of-humor/



It's strange how Trump supporters can dismiss a few bad actors within their midst but hang a few bad actors around the neck of BLM in an attempt to lynch the movement in claiming it is not legitimate. Problem is, their candidate is a bad actor. I don't support everything everyone within BLM does. There are people within it that I believe are dangerous characters out to promote their own agenda using the sympathy garnered by the movement. Trump is a dangerous character all by himself and his supporters, well....they support him.

Gary Johnson admits there are problems with injustice within our society and our laws. He wants to improve the situation for black people, for police, and for society as a whole. AND he believes the best way to do this is through more freedom instead of through more and more and ever more overbearing liberty crunching gestapo tactics authoritarian government control.

If you think we don't have a race problem in American you are blind. If you think the roots of and the entire problem lies within the black community you are at the least stupid and at worst possibly a racist. You've probably been brainwashed by years and years of divisive political arguments that ignore the real problems and the real solutions and that actually are happy when we are divided until a token olive branch is extended at election time in a vain attempt at "outreach".

Johnson is the grown up in the room with his eyes open, able to discern that there is a problem and admit it and come to some conclusions that the problem needs addressed in a meaningful way for the good of everyone and he actually has some good ideas on how to at least partially achieve goals that would benefit most people in society.

But you Trump supporters just keep pushing for more "law and order", which is really a call for putting those people back in their place. Who do they think they are anyway?!

Just your fellow American citizens.

Gary Johnson can condemn is the strongest terms the unnecessary killings and imprisonment of blacks while at the same time condemning in the strongest terms killings of those charged with keeping our society open and civil because not only can he walk and chew gum at the same time but he can see the big picture and the details and see that using the police powers of the state illegitimately is as dangerous as blatant attacks on the police who enforce the law. All while respecting the people called upon to enforce those ill-conceived laws. There is no either-or to this. Neither-nor is not an option. The only way to go forward is just what Johnson proposes - addressing both (or all) issues pertaining to the problem.

I know it sounds crazy to some, but if you use reason and logic it is possible to get there. Using raw emotion and prejudice will take you somewhere else, as will pandering.

ETA: Not aimed at you '92 or anyone else in particular. Just my generalized observation of many people and sources.
i agree with everything you wrote :)
 

NationalTitles18

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What do you mean by "race problem"? And regarding this "race problem" is there a root? If so, what do you think it is? And more generally, what are the primary drivers of this "race problem" in your opinion?
By "race problem" I mean the issues pertaining to race we are experiencing today.

There is a root. It may or may not involve shipping millions of people in conditions far worse than animals would be shipped from their home continent to others for the sole purpose of exploiting their forced labor for material profit. You decide.

The primary drivers that continue this "race problem" are the continued hangover effect and continued public policies which have been put in place to keep the "super-predators" in their place - locked up in prison (or in the graveyard) - and those which continue to be an economic detriment to black communities. See prior comments for the root of those drivers.

Now, you might say "but black on black crime". What is the root of most of that? Poor economics, poor opportunities, poor self-determination, poor education, and drug prohibition - all lingering from the root of the problem.

And the root of the root of the problem?

Racism.

You might say "all that's over with". Not according to the laws on the books and all statistical measures.

You might say "they keep doing it to themselves", but isn't that a little like beating a man near death and then blaming him for "just lying there" in his own vomit and blood?

America is a great nation with great ideals. The "race problem" stems from abandoning those ideals for a racist agenda that intentionally - this was it's very purpose - was to make black people feel powerless. The more we align our policies with our ideals the more the "race problem" will diminish into obscurity.

Problem is, we can't even admit that abandoning our ideals caused it, much less that reaffirming those ideals will bring healing.
 

Tidewater

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that is such a sad statement, especially considering racism doesn't exist anymore
Interesting. The justification for so-called Affirmative Action was that the white majority had not seen a competent black person in a position of government employment, and therefore would never give a black person a chance to compete fairly. Affirmative Action, so-called, was based on the idea that, once white Americans got to see how conscientious, competent, professional some black people were, the barriers would be lifted and black and white (and other) people would be able to compete for hiring, promotion, etc. Affirmative Action obviously violates the the letter of the XIV Amendment, yet the goal (opening the windows of equal of opportunity) was worth the temporary drawback of violating the Equal Protection Clause of the XIV AMendment. The premise of Affirmative Action was not that it would remain until all evidence of racial discrimination was gone forever, just until white Americans would see that black people could compete.

In light of the fact we have an African-American in the highest elective office the American people can offer (and have re-hired him given the chance) would you seriously argue that most white people would not give an otherwise qualified black applicant an opportunity to compete for a job, promotion, etc.?
 

NationalTitles18

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Interesting. The justification for so-called Affirmative Action was that the white majority had not seen a competent black person in a position of government employment, and therefore would never give a black person a chance to compete fairly. Affirmative Action, so-called, was based on the idea that, once white Americans got to see how conscientious, competent, professional some black people were, the barriers would be lifted and black and white (and other) people would be able to compete for hiring, promotion, etc. Affirmative Action obviously violates the the letter of the XIV Amendment, yet the goal (opening the windows of equal of opportunity) was worth the temporary drawback of violating the Equal Protection Clause of the XIV AMendment. The premise of Affirmative Action was not that it would remain until all evidence of racial discrimination was gone forever, just until white Americans would see that black people could compete.

In light of the fact we have an African-American in the highest elective office the American people can offer (and have re-hired him given the chance) would you seriously argue that most white people would not give an otherwise qualified black applicant an opportunity to compete for a job, promotion, etc.?
I just don't understand what affirmative action has to do with the subject being discussed, save somewhere far out there tangentially.
 

Tide1986

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By "race problem" I mean the issues pertaining to race we are experiencing today.

There is a root. It may or may not involve shipping millions of people in conditions far worse than animals would be shipped from their home continent to others for the sole purpose of exploiting their forced labor for material profit. You decide.

The primary drivers that continue this "race problem" are the continued hangover effect and continued public policies which have been put in place to keep the "super-predators" in their place - locked up in prison (or in the graveyard) - and those which continue to be an economic detriment to black communities. See prior comments for the root of those drivers.

Now, you might say "but black on black crime". What is the root of most of that? Poor economics, poor opportunities, poor self-determination, poor education, and drug prohibition - all lingering from the root of the problem.

And the root of the root of the problem?

Racism.

You might say "all that's over with". Not according to the laws on the books and all statistical measures.

You might say "they keep doing it to themselves", but isn't that a little like beating a man near death and then blaming him for "just lying there" in his own vomit and blood?

America is a great nation with great ideals. The "race problem" stems from abandoning those ideals for a racist agenda that intentionally - this was it's very purpose - was to make black people feel powerless. The more we align our policies with our ideals the more the "race problem" will diminish into obscurity.

Problem is, we can't even admit that abandoning our ideals caused it, much less that reaffirming those ideals will bring healing.
Admittedly, people can let the past drag them down...it happens to all kinds. And of course there are racists in the United States and in all corners of the globe...always has been and always will be as long as there is life.

So, regarding the "race problems" that you see, what are the primary steps you would take so the problems would exist no more or would at least no longer be an excuse?
 

NationalTitles18

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Admittedly, people can let the past drag them down...it happens to all kinds. And of course there are racists in the United States and in all corners of the globe...always has been and always will be as long as there is life.

So, regarding the "race problems" that you see, what are the primary steps you would take so the problems would exist no more or would at least no longer be an excuse?
The first step is admitting there is a problem. The next step is admitting I don't have all the answers. Quite honestly, I think the most important thing is to communicate with each other. We can have criminal justice reform - and that's needed (and part of Johnson's platform) - and we can have all other kinds of reform, but if we don't get to know each other and communicate then all the reform in the world will have limited value.
 

NationalTitles18

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In the latest IBD poll, Gary Johnson leads Her among 18-24 year olds 35% to 30%. Trump is far back at 12% with Stein at 7%. There is hope for the future.

http://www.investors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/POSTING_Tables_Aug2016_Horserace_Registered-Voters.pdf

Relevant table is found on page 13 of the pdf (not page 13 as seen in your browser)
 
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Jon

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In the latest IBD poll, Gary Johnson leads Her among 18-24 year olds 35% to 30%. Trump is far back at 12% with Stein at 7%. There is hope for the future.

http://www.investors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/POSTING_Tables_Aug2016_Horserace_Registered-Voters.pdf

Relevant table is found on page 14 of the pdf (not page 13 as seen in your browser)
I think that it is because this generation actually understands better what freedom means than any generation that has proceeded it, possibly because they've lived their entire lives with nearly full information freedom.
 

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