It's Time to End the "War on Drugs" - Page 2
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  1. #14
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by DzynKingRTR View Post
    so you guys think we should legalize all drugs? so we can just go to Publix and buy some T-bones, some crab legs, some black tar heroin, some baking potatoes, and some yeast rolls?
    Yes to legalizing all drugs. every last one.

    If Publix wants to sell them....but I doubt they ever would. More likely, it would be like the local pron shop or bar. We don't have to worry about family friendly shops suddenly turning seedy and driving their base far away.
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles16 View Post
    Yes to legalizing all drugs. every last one.

    If Publix wants to sell them....but I doubt they ever would. More likely, it would be like the local pron shop or bar. We don't have to worry about family friendly shops suddenly turning seedy and driving their base far away.
    Why stop there? we can go ahead and make everything legal, then there would be no crime because everything is legal.
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  3. #16
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    Are you open to banning booze or tobacco since it's so bad?

    And, no, I'm not suggesting you want that. Just curious, if you think we should....since it would benefit socialized healthcare
    Nope. We could ban all kinds of things that would indirectly lower healthcare utilization. But such bans would directly impact personal freedoms first and foremost.

  4. #17
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by DzynKingRTR View Post
    Why stop there? we can go ahead and make everything legal, then there would be no crime because everything is legal.
    Look around you and tell me what good has come from the "War on Drugs"...

    Then read this on the good legalization has done in Portugal.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.1d07d8f21f38

    So which is better: Throw people in jail or offer them help? Overdose deaths out the yin yang or hardly any? Evermore encroachments on our liberty or freedom from nighttime raids on the wrong house with innocent people killed by police when they think their home is being invaded by criminals (actually, it is, just under color of law)? Gangs fighting with guns in the streets or business people settling their disputes in court? Loose regulations and a safe product or effectively no regulation and a deadly product? a $500 billion/year industry that pays no taxes or one that pays sales, employment, income, and other taxes? (that number is worldwide, not the US so apologies. In 2010 that number was $100 billion/year according to the Obama White House though I'm sure that has increased significantly since. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...rugs-each-year )

    And please tell me how many people who don't use hard drugs now are suddenly going to say to themselves: Hey, it'd be great if I became a junky. I think I'll go to Publix and get some crack!

    Chances are no one who isn't going to use anyway would use if they were legally available. After all, most of us wouldn't have to get a mile from home to find just about any drug we wanted if we wanted one.

    The numbers in Portugal do not support the notion that people will just start using just because - and that includes teenagers.

    Bottom line: The "War on Drugs" hasn't just been a failure. It's been a costly and deadly disaster.

    It took me a very long time to overcome years and years of what I can only call brainwashing at this point to reach this conclusion. It goes against everything I had ever been taught about drugs (other than that they are bad, mmmk). Looking at the data I could reach no other conclusion, however. But getting past what we've been taught is difficult.
    Last edited by NationalTitles17; August 7th, 2017 at 01:59 AM.
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  5. #18
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    Booze often leads to domestic violence

    Dope tends to lower it
    I'm not fully convinced of this yet, but it's possible. Any evidence?


    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles16 View Post
    Yes to legalizing all drugs. every last one.

    If Publix wants to sell them....but I doubt they ever would. More likely, it would be like the local pron shop or bar. We don't have to worry about family friendly shops suddenly turning seedy and driving their base far away.
    No thank you. I normally agree with your perspective very strongly, but in this case I feel this is very wrongheaded. Am I the only one who thinks legalizing opioids would be a completely terrible idea? Because I believe legalizing opioids would be a completely terrible idea! I can't even begin to imagine what a wasteland our country would become if we let everyone personally experiment with these drugs.

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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    Booze often leads to domestic violence

    Dope tends to lower it
    That's interesting.

  7. #20
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Nope. We could ban all kinds of things that would indirectly lower healthcare utilization. But such bans would directly impact personal freedoms first and foremost.
    Like when we used to Have the freedom to not buy healthcare if we chose not to.......without being fined?

    When "The greater good" is used as the reason to restrict personal freedoms....should be applied across the board or not at all.
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

  8. #21
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by LA4Bama View Post
    I'm not fully convinced of this yet, but it's possible. Any evidence?




    No thank you. I normally agree with your perspective very strongly, but in this case I feel this is very wrongheaded. Am I the only one who thinks legalizing opioids would be a completely terrible idea? Because I believe legalizing opioids would be a completely terrible idea! I can't even begin to imagine what a wasteland our country would become if we let everyone personally experiment with these drugs.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5711217.html

    Past research has indicated that couples who abuse substances are at a greater risk for divorce, in part because substance abuse often leads to an increase in domestic violence.

    However, new research has found that when it comes to marijuana use, the opposite might be true: frequent use of marijuana by couples is associated with less partner violence.

    Researchers from Yale University, University of Buffalo and Rutgers recruited 634 couples from 1996 to 1999 while they were applying for a marriage license in New York State. After an initial interview, the researchers followed the couples over the course of nine years using mail-in surveys to measure the effects of marijuana use on intimate partner violence (IPV).
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

  9. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by DzynKingRTR View Post
    Why stop there? we can go ahead and make everything legal, then there would be no crime because everything is legal.
    Portugal actually did that basically:

    https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin

  10. #23
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles16 View Post
    Look around you and tell me what good has come from the "War on Drugs"...

    Then read this on the good legalization has done in Portugal.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.1d07d8f21f38

    So which is better: Throw people in jail or offer them help? Overdose deaths out the yin yang or hardly any? Evermore encroachments on our liberty or freedom from nighttime raids on the wrong house with innocent people killed by police when they think their home is being invaded by criminals (actually, it is, just under color of law)? Gangs fighting with guns in the streets or business people settling their disputes in court? Loose regulations and a safe product or effectively no regulation and a deadly product? a $500 billion/year industry that pays no taxes or one that pays sales, employment, income, and other taxes? (that number is worldwide, not the US so apologies. In 2010 that number was $100 billion/year according to the Obama White House though I'm sure that has increased significantly since. https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...rugs-each-year )

    And please tell me how many people who don't use hard drugs now are suddenly going to say to themselves: Hey, it'd be great if I became a junky. I think I'll go to Publix and get some crack!

    Chances are no one who isn't going to use anyway would use if they were legally available. After all, most of us wouldn't have to get a mile from home to find just about any drug we wanted if we wanted one.

    The numbers in Portugal do not support the notion that people will just start using just because - and that includes teenagers.

    Bottom line: The "War on Drugs" hasn't just been a failure. It's been a costly and deadly disaster.

    It took me a very long time to overcome years and years of what I can only call brainwashing at this point to reach this conclusion. It goes against everything I had ever been taught about drugs (other than that they are bad, mmmk). Looking at the data I could reach no other conclusion, however. But getting past what we've been taught is difficult.
    When people try to compare the US to single countries in Europe, it's hard to line up the numbers. The cultures, income imbalances, diversity, and internal subcultures are completely different...

    Tha would be like saying "countrywide gun ownership in the US should be desireable because of its success in Switzerland."

    Just because "The Process" works in TTown, doesn't mean it can work in Miami.....
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

  11. #24
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    When "The greater good" is used as the reason to restrict personal freedoms....should be applied across the board or not at all.
    I disagree. If you're going to use the communal good to justify infringing on personal freedom, the evidence and impact need to be heavily weighed on a case by case basis.

    Take guns, for example. I do not advocate that guns be taken from lawful citizens -- that may indeed help the communal good by lowering gun violence, but it's an enormous breach of personal liberty that I cannot support. But I do endorse closing the gun show loophole; the communal good is better served by ensuring that no one can sidestep a background check before purchasing firearms, and the personal inconvenience is low. Same with gun storage laws. Toddlers have caused the deaths of more Americans than terrorists in recent years due to parents leaving loaded guns around the house; but that number plummeted to nearly zero when MA mandated that any gun not currently in use be stored in a gun safe. Evidence confirms that this move supports the communal good, and I don't think the level of personal inconvenience is very high.

    To your point, I emphatically do not think it should be an all or nothing approach.

  12. #25
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunCrimson View Post
    Saying dope reduced the violence and a study that show's there is a decrease in violence among couples who smoke dope are not necessarily the same thing. While it may be true that the lower tendency to violence is caused by the dope, it could be that people in this study who smoke dope are simply less violent people. Get a bunch of hippies together and take away their dope and they would still be non-violent...or would they?

  13. #26
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: It's Time to End the "War on Drugs"

    Quote Originally Posted by LA4Bama View Post
    No thank you. I normally agree with your perspective very strongly, but in this case I feel this is very wrongheaded. Am I the only one who thinks legalizing opioids would be a completely terrible idea? Because I believe legalizing opioids would be a completely terrible idea! I can't even begin to imagine what a wasteland our country would become if we let everyone personally experiment with these drugs.
    Because outlawing opioids has gone swimmingly well and the recent crackdown on them has improved lives across the board, hasn't it?

    I get your visceral reaction here. When I first heard the idea I thought the same thing. I resisted it for a very long time. I honestly thought "those people are whack-jobs!". But the evidence against criminalization is overwhelming and at some point either lore or data win the day. Trust Data, not Lore.
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