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  1. #14
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    1 week and 5 days ago I could walk into a grocery store after work without prior planning and pick up a few things which I could carry out in a bag or 3. The next day I had to bring my own bag or buy one. I don't think folks in the red states want this kind of stupidity at the federal level with no real way to counter it. Heck, why not just make all senators nationally elected since they represent all of us? That's about how dumb doing away with the EC is.
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  2. #15
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbaloo View Post
    We are the United STATES of America and I don't want 3 or 4 states dictating what the other 46 or 47 are going to have to live with.
    Doesn't that already happen, though? This year, those states were called FL, PA, MI, and WI.

  3. #16
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Doesn't that already happen, though? This year, those states were called FL, PA, MI, and WI.
    They got the focus but had the other states gone differently....

    Federalism is not about what the majority of people want. It's a balance of popular and regional interests. It's called "compromise". The framers were masters at it. Apparently it's a lost art.
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  4. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Doesn't that already happen, though? This year, those states were called FL, PA, MI, and WI.
    This is the common argument, but in no way as unfair as allowing California, New York, and Texas to control the election. California and newyork are clear liberal states while Florida and Ohio lean one way or another. The only way to overturn a majority in both California and New York is to get an overwhelming lion share in Texas along with every Midwest and southern state.


    Fwiw I think it's funny we only talk about popular vote when the democrats lose. We haven't talked about it for 8 years because the democrats won the EC pretty handily.

  5. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    This is the common argument, but in no way as unfair as allowing California, New York, and Texas to control the election. California and newyork are clear liberal states while Florida and Ohio lean one way or another.
    Sure, but you know that argument cuts both ways. The interests and priorities of voters in FL do not necessarily mirror those of voters in CA or NY. Why is it okay for certain states to hold so much more electoral power over the others?

    We see every election that fewer than half of Americans vote. I'd wager much of that is because the electoral college renders (presidential) voting in the majority of states irrelevant. I suspect that a popular vote would greatly increase voter participation. Even something as simple as a more representative electoral college could increase voter participation.

  6. #19
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles16 View Post
    They got the focus but had the other states gone differently....
    The map looked slightly different this year, but you know that a handful of swing states get the focus every election year while others are entirely ignored.

  7. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Clubfitter View Post
    If the last election winner would have been by popular vote, Trump would have spent more time in Cal, NY, etc and still won the election.
    If that's true (which he says) wouldn't that be better than having most of the population basically ignored during the campaign?

  8. #21
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    This is the common argument, but in no way as unfair as allowing California, New York, and Texas to control the election. California and newyork are clear liberal states while Florida and Ohio lean one way or another. The only way to overturn a majority in both California and New York is to get an overwhelming lion share in Texas along with every Midwest and southern state.


    Fwiw I think it's funny we only talk about popular vote when the democrats lose. We haven't talked about it for 8 years because the democrats won the EC pretty handily.
    Those states wouldn't be controlling the election, the people would, nationwide, and we didn't talk about it over the last 8 years because it didn't make any difference

  9. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Sure, but you know that argument cuts both ways. The interests and priorities of voters in FL do not necessarily mirror those of voters in CA or NY. Why is it okay for certain states to hold so much more electoral power over the others?

    We see every election that fewer than half of Americans vote. I'd wager much of that is because the electoral college renders (presidential) voting in the majority of states irrelevant. I suspect that a popular vote would greatly increase voter participation. Even something as simple as a more representative electoral college could increase voter participation.
    Florida is an equally liberal and conservative state, while California is a progressive dominant, and New York is a mainstream liberal dominat. Neither will ever elect even a mainstream conservative unless they have a candidate from their state. Florida is a perfect experiment in which way the country is leaning.

    Unless we go to a parliamentary type of election where we choose everything at once, then there is no real reason to get rid of the EC because our system of government is designed for gridlock.

  10. #23
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 81usaf92's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    Those states wouldn't be controlling the election, the people would, nationwide, and we didn't talk about it over the last 8 years because it didn't make any difference
    New York, Illinois, and California outnumber the biggest conservative state by 43 million people. That's more or less a 4th of the population. So you are basically trading politically contested states that favor a 2 party system to who can win the most populated states which strongly favors liberal ideology. So yes those states control the election in your scenario.

    Fwiw this is how revolutions and civil wars happen when power is strongly against the blue collar worker.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; November 20th, 2016 at 12:48 PM.

  11. #24
    BamaNation Hall of Fame bamachile's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles16 View Post
    Heck, why not just make all senators nationally elected since they represent all of us? That's about how dumb doing away with the EC is.
    There's a pretty good argument that the 17th amendment did just that by allowing national influences to pour into smaller or poorer states from larger, more wealthy ones.
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  12. #25
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Sure, but you know that argument cuts both ways. The interests and priorities of voters in FL do not necessarily mirror those of voters in CA or NY. Why is it okay for certain states to hold so much more electoral power over the others?

    We see every election that fewer than half of Americans vote. I'd wager much of that is because the electoral college renders (presidential) voting in the majority of states irrelevant. I suspect that a popular vote would greatly increase voter participation. Even something as simple as a more representative electoral college could increase voter participation.
    If the EC suppresses turnout, then I'm pleased because it's discouraging those who don't give a crap about the country.

  13. #26
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: The Electoral College

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    Doesn't that already happen, though? This year, those states were called FL, PA, MI, and WI.
    When you added "this year" you destroyed your own argument.
    Doc Holliday: [to Johnny Ringo, after shooting him in a duel] You're no daisy! You're no daisy at all. Poor soul, you were just too high strung

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