Question: The Electoral College

NationalTitles18

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I have two issues with the EC. (1) It disenfranchises red voters and blue states and blue voters in red states. (2) It gives far more representation to rural, predominantly white voters through the math of the EC system. Right now, one person's vote in Wyoming or the Dakotas is weighted ~4 times more than a vote from someone in a more heavily populated state. I would support a compromise whereby the number of EC votes per state is rebalanced to reflect the current population distribution. It wouldn't help with my first issue. But since I don't seriously believe the EC will be abolished in my lifetime until it disadvantages the GOP (which is unlikely due to issue #2), I would accept a reform that better balances state representation while keeping the system intact and not forcing nationwide recounts in years where there is no clear victor by popular vote to the tune of 1.5+ million.

But again, since the EC grants Republicans an institutional advantage, realistically nothing will be done.
Dude....it's rebalanced after every single census, so every 10 years. You'll get your wish in 4 years.

Red/blue, blue/red....who gives a crap? Because you don't get your way doesn't mean you are disinfranchised or else 3rd partiers are disinfranchised everywhere and every presidential election. The EC is not about people's votes. Never was. It is about the vote of the states, which now all let people vote on the matter to make it more democratic but didn't always do so.
 

Tide1986

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I would support a compromise whereby the number of EC votes per state is rebalanced to reflect the current population distribution.
This already occurs. Representation in the House changes based on population shifts measured according to the U.S. census, which impacts the number of electors that a state has.
 

Tide1986

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Yep, and that's exactly my point.

The only reason the EC has become a topic for discussion is because the Dems don't like the results. We'd likely see the same response from the Repubs were the shoe on the other foot.

It's a knee-jerk reaction, not a fight against some institutional unfairness.
I'm already on record as an EC proponent regardless of the popular vote. Color me informed.
 

92tide

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Yep, and that's exactly my point.

The only reason the EC has become a topic for discussion is because the Dems don't like the results. We'd likely see the same response from the Repubs were the shoe on the other foot.

It's a knee-jerk reaction, not a fight against some institutional unfairness.
for some, yes, but there have been folks pushing for popular vote for a while. i think there are probably some ways to tweak the ec to make it more institutionally "fair", but i am not interested in scrapping it. i think that going strictly off of the popular vote could open up a pandora's box.
 

81usaf92

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Sometimes simplistic answers are the proper answers. Every other election, senate, house, governor, mayor etc is decided by popular vote. The presidential doesn't need to be nor should it be different. Let the people decide directly. Sorry if this seems simplistic or high schoolish but that is how i feel.
Also consider you are voting within a specific state when you are voting for those particular places. So it's not a huge political ideological difference.

So no that doesn't help your argument at all.
 

81usaf92

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Not sure why that would be a problem. It certainly is not a good reason to keep the EC, convenience. I seriously doubt that it was on the framers minds so it seems odd that strict constructionists like I believe you are would even consider it. Recounts are the exception, not the rule.
So you wouldn't be opposed to Trump staying in office for 7 years for one term just because of recounts on his reelection? Because if every vote counts then you have to tally every vote for Kim kardasians butt along with every other vote. It wouldn't be simple as you think. So come up with a realistic way of attacking this 1 issue of many with your proposal. Because we have said more thought out reasons why popular voting alone isn't going to fix it, but you keep up with the blanket statements even after 13 days of being on the subject
 
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CharminTide

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This already occurs. Representation in the House changes based on population shifts measured according to the U.S. census, which impacts the number of electors that a state has.
Because of the minimum of 3 EC votes, it is not actually balanced. Until a single vote in CA has the same approximate weight a single vote in WY, the EC will not be balanced and election of the president will continue to weigh more heavily the voices of white, rural Americans. That was my point.
 

NationalTitles18

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Because of the minimum of 3 EC votes, it is not actually balanced. Until a single vote in CA has the same approximate weight a single vote in WY, the EC will not be balanced and election of the president will continue to weigh more heavily the voices of white, rural Americans. That was my point.
The people do not elect the president....states do. They just allow you to vote on it.
 

92tide

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Because of the minimum of 3 EC votes, it is not actually balanced. Until a single vote in CA has the same approximate weight a single vote in WY, the EC will not be balanced and election of the president will continue to weigh more heavily the voices of white, rural Americans. That was my point.
well, they are the "real americans"
 

Tide1986

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Because of the minimum of 3 EC votes, it is not actually balanced. Until a single vote in CA has the same approximate weight a single vote in WY, the EC will not be balanced and election of the president will continue to weigh more heavily the voices of white, rural Americans. That was my point.
Yep, 2 senators + 1 representative = 3 electors.

Meanwhile in downtrodden California: 2 senators + 53 representatives = 55 electors
 

TideEngineer08

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LOL, we just elected a black president - TWICE - and yet the system is titled towards mean ole white, rural, America? Give me a freaking break.

You should have nominated someone, anyone really, other than a criminal old hag. Literally anyone, and you would be celebrating today.
 

92tide

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LOL, we just elected a black president - TWICE - and yet the system is titled towards mean ole white, rural, America? Give me a freaking break.

You should have nominated someone, anyone really, other than a criminal old hag. Literally anyone, and you would be celebrating today.
if only she hadn't been such a hag and criminal ...

nyt

WASHINGTON — By the time Richard B. Spencer, the leading ideologue of the alt-right movement and the final speaker of the night, rose to address a gathering of his followers on Saturday, the crowd was restless...

But now his tone changed as he began to tell the audience of more than 200 people, mostly young men, what they had been waiting to hear. He railed against Jews and, with a smile, quoted Nazi propaganda in the original German. America, he said, belonged to white people, whom he called the “children of the sun,” a race of conquerors and creators who had been marginalized but now, in the era of President-elect Donald J. Trump, were “awakening to their own identity.”

As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, “Heil the people! Heil victory,” the room shouted it back.
 

Tidewater

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Not sure why that would be a problem. It certainly is not a good reason to keep the EC, convenience. I seriously doubt that it was on the framers minds so it seems odd that strict constructionists like I believe you are would even consider it. Recounts are the exception, not the rule.
Recounts are not the rule now because voting is done by state. Trump has no reason to request a recount in California because the margin of victory in that state was so wide. There's just no way a recount of the votes in California would result in a Trump victory in that state.
Eliminate the EC and the margin of victory in any particular state would become irrelevant. The margin of victory nationwide would determine whether a recount would be needed, and if needed, it would involve every single precinct in every single state, because all popular votes would go into one massive hopper.

The Founders solved the "convenience" issue by having the state legislatures select electors in four of the ten states (Conn. NJ, Ga. SC). Only 6 of the 10 voting for president selected their electors by popular vote. RI and NC cast no EC votes at all, since they, refusing to ratify the Constitution, were no longer part of the Union in 1789.

The EC was part of the bargain between big states and little states. Reneging on a provision of a bargain relieves the parties of the obligation to comply with the other provisions. As Dan Webster said, "A bargain broken on one side is broken on all sides."
 

Tide1986

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LOL, we just elected a black president - TWICE - and yet the system is titled towards mean ole white, rural, America? Give me a freaking break.

You should have nominated someone, anyone really, other than a criminal old hag. Literally anyone, and you would be celebrating today.
Ironically, I think some of the lefties on the board originated from what most outside of Alabama would think of as white, rural America. You'd think no diversity could ever originate from white, rural America given the handwringing around here.
 

TIDE-HSV

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LOL, we just elected a black president - TWICE - and yet the system is titled towards mean ole white, rural, America? Give me a freaking break.

You should have nominated someone, anyone really, other than a criminal old hag. Literally anyone, and you would be celebrating today.
Um, she seems to be able to muster quite a popular vote, which is going to expand... ;)
 

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