Question: The Electoral College

81usaf92

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Apr 26, 2008
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No, it does matter. In the history of this nation, a Democrat has never won the EC while losing the popular vote. In contrast, the system has benefited a Republican 5 of 6 times in our history. And that 6th example (Adams in 1824) benefited the direct political precursor to the Republican party.

Now, the demographics of this country are vastly different in the 2000's (Bush and Trump) from the 1800's (Adams, Hayes, Harrison), but it's simply dishonest to dismiss complaints about the EC as sour grapes. It is mathematical fact that the EC weighs the votes of certain Americans more than others. And the farther we move from the Founders' agrarian ideal, the more apparent that systemic bias becomes. Some people will support that bias because it benefits them, but it absolutely exists.
Find a better and more realistic way of doing it and I would support it, but there was a reason the EC was put in place in the first place and the reason still exists.
 

crimsonaudio

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Sep 9, 2002
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When was the last time a Dem won the EC while losing the popular vote?
Wait, I'm making a hypothetical statement and you're asking for proof?

Honestly - HRC wins the EC and Trump wins the popular vote - are you clamoring to eliminate the EC and go to popular vote? You aren't, and neither are the other Dems who are right now. And the Repubs WOULD be clamoring to get rid of it...

You know this to be true.

My point has nothing to do with supporting Trump (who I didn't vote for, I think he's a buffoon), but simply to point out that this is a knee-jerk reaction to the loss. We didn't hear anything about getting rid of the EC in 2008 or 2012...
 

CharminTide

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Oct 23, 2005
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Find a better and more realistic way of doing it and I would support it, but there was a reason the EC was put in place in the first place and the reason still exists.
I've posted one before. Keep the EC, but modify the number of votes awarded to each state so that an individual vote in CA is weighted approximately the same as an individual vote in WY. Simple fix.
 

NationalTitles18

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May 25, 2003
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No, it does matter. In the history of this nation, a Democrat has never won the EC while losing the popular vote. In contrast, the system has benefited a Republican 5 of 6 times in our history. And that 6th example (Adams in 1824) benefited the direct political precursor to the Republican party.

Now, the demographics of this country are vastly different in the 2000's (Bush and Trump) from the 1800's (Adams, Hayes, Harrison), but it's simply dishonest to dismiss complaints about the EC as sour grapes. It is mathematical fact that the EC weighs the votes of certain Americans more than others. And the farther we move from the Founders' agrarian ideal, the more apparent that systemic bias becomes. Some people will support that bias because it benefits them, but it absolutely exists.
Depends on what you mean. Several times they were first past the post but without a majority. Why not force a majoruty win since we want democracy and all. Popular vote is not democratic. Majority is.
 

Tide1986

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Nov 22, 2008
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I find that irrelevant in view of the fact that the EC has once again delivered us a minority president, and, it appears, a multi-million vote minority president. You applaud it because your guy won, which, in my view, is short-sighted. It goes to the legitimacy of the executive branch. People from parliamentary countries find it incomprehensible...
Fair enough; nevertheless, I consider my view to be the long-sighted one.
 

NationalTitles18

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May 25, 2003
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I find that irrelevant in view of the fact that the EC has once again delivered us a minority president, and, it appears, a multi-million vote minority president. You applaud it because your guy won, which, in my view, is short-sighted. It goes to the legitimacy of the executive branch. People from parliamentary countries find it incomprehensible...
In fairness our is not a parliamentary government and theirs is not a federal government. I forgive them of their ignorance.
 

Tide1986

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Nov 22, 2008
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No, it does matter. In the history of this nation, a Democrat has never won the EC while losing the popular vote. In contrast, the system has benefited a Republican 5 of 6 times in our history. And that 6th example (Adams in 1824) benefited the direct political precursor to the Republican party.

Now, the demographics of this country are vastly different in the 2000's (Bush and Trump) from the 1800's (Adams, Hayes, Harrison), but it's simply dishonest to dismiss complaints about the EC as sour grapes. It is mathematical fact that the EC weighs the votes of certain Americans more than others. And the farther we move from the Founders' agrarian ideal, the more apparent that systemic bias becomes. Some people will support that bias because it benefits them, but it absolutely exists.
Thank goodness for freedom of movement in the United States and mobile computing. Those craving mathematical superiority can simply move to Wyoming. Or some other 3-elector state.
 

Tide1986

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My point has nothing to do with supporting Trump (who I didn't vote for, I think he's a buffoon), but simply to point out that this is a knee-jerk reaction to the loss. We didn't hear anything about getting rid of the EC in 2008 or 2012...
And his vote didn't count any more then than it does now. Funny how that works.
 

Tide1986

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I've posted one before. Keep the EC, but modify the number of votes awarded to each state so that an individual vote in CA is weighted approximately the same as an individual vote in WY. Simple fix.
You could eliminate the 2 "senatorial" electors for every state, but even in that scenario Hillary loses big.
 

CharminTide

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Oct 23, 2005
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Thank goodness for freedom of movement in the United States and mobile computing. Those craving mathematical superiority can simply move to Wyoming. Or some other 3-elector state.
Ah, yes. "If you don't like it, move." Always a strong argument.

And his vote didn't count any more then than it does now. Funny how that works.
I'm not sure why you're surprised that people tend to talk about greasing gears more once they hear grinding sounds and not so much when they're functioning properly.
 

sabanball

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If the Left had their druthers, they would do away with the EC then switch to popular vote (current argument) as they flood the sanctuary cities with illegals (current event) to insure they always won.

Count me out on that dystopian future...
 

Intl.Aperture

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Aug 12, 2015
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The EC was neutered a long time ago.
Re-drawing the district? If that's what you mean take a look at some of the Virginia districts and I think it'll support that point. I live in the Hampton Roads area of Southeast VA and our district encompasses all of Hampton Roads and then there is an itty bitty thin line that goes all the way up to Richmond and circles. it. Yah, "District."
 

CharminTide

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Apparently not.
So you disagree with the idea that the EC is now just a ceremonial role, and believe it still represents a collection of wise men chosen by the states to judge and sometimes overturn the people's electoral will, if they deem it a dangerous path for the country?
 

Bamaro

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If the Left had their druthers, they would do away with the EC then switch to popular vote (current argument) as they flood the sanctuary cities with illegals (current event) to insure they always won.

Count me out on that dystopian future...
Nice try but illegals still dont vote no matter how many times statements like that are made.
 

sabanball

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Nice try but illegals still dont vote no matter how many times statements like that are made.
Of note, I plainly stated "dystopian future" based on current arguments and current events. Currently the EC is still in place, however one could see how close we are (or were rather) from what I described becoming a reality. Basically, it is not out of the realm of possibility is all I'm stating.

Back to your statement, it should be easy for you to provide factual/accurate proof, tons of it in fact, that absolutely zero illegals (non-citizens) have voted in the last 3 elections. "Cuz bamaro sez so" won't fly. Also before you flip-flop the proof question on me, I'll leave these here:

President Obama’s temporary deportation amnesty will make it easier for illegal immigrants to improperly register and vote in elections, state elections officials testified to Congress on Thursday, saying that the driver’s licenses and Social Security numbers they will be granted create a major voting loophole.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/12/obama-amnesty-creates-loophole-for-illegal-immigra/

Several well-funded organizations — including the League of Women Voters and the NAACP — are fighting efforts to prevent non-citizens from voting illegally in the upcoming presidential election. And the United States Department of Justice, under the direction of Attorney General Loretta Lynch, is helping them. On February 12, these groups filed a lawsuit in D.C. federal court seeking to reverse a recent decision by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission (EAC). The Commission’s decision allows Kansas and other states, including Arizona and Georgia, to enforce state laws ensuring that only citizens register to vote when they use a federally designed registration form. An initial hearing in the case is set for Monday afternoon, February 22.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431676/obama-administration-enabling-noncitizen-voting

Just because there are laws against non-citizens voting doesn't mean that the laws are getting enforced (much like current immigration laws). Bottom line...keep the EC, reform voter registration laws to require photo id across all states and enforce citizens only voting.
 

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