The policy and politics of Trumpism

Bodhisattva · Jan 26, 2017

Tide1986 said:
Are you referring to the evidence that requiring a photo ID does not suppress voter turnout?

Maybe the evidence referred to is that most of the states not requiring any form of ID are Democrat strongholds. Kind of funny how that works out.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 26, 2017

Bamabuzzard said:
Regarding the argument about the "inconvenience" or "inability" of the poor or elderly to have transportation to go get a voter ID card. How did these people get their names on the insurance roles when Obamacare was enacted? Specifically the ones who were uninsured before? Did people make house calls, go to their homes and "sign them up"? Or was the burden on them to go to designated offices and get enrolled?

Or apply for their social security, medicare/Medicaid, welfare, Section 8 housing, or Obamaphone, etc.?

chanson78 · Jan 26, 2017

Bodhisattva said:
I don't buy it. What's to stop any non-citizen from walking in and voting? I've witnessed what was likely illegals voting on multiple occasions.

Since you suspect that there were illegals voting did you call the Federal Election Commission?

Here is their phone number: 1-800-424-9530

I am all for stopping people who aren't eligible to vote from voting. But unless you actually do something about it, anecdotes are just a way to bolster your argument on the internet.

My feeling is that you are likely not the only person in the US who believes they have witnessed voter fraud. I imagine that there are many who are more outraged than you, likely even outraged enough to call the FEC. Of all the studies performed regarding voter fraud, it is shown to be a fraction of a percent. This isn't an official government site, but here is where I am getting my data. Voter Fraud Facts Now I also understand that this site likely is qualified as an "alternative fact" site by you, so I am more than willing to look at any alternative information you have. However according to this, and many studies I have seen, the actual incidents are in the 0.00001% range of all votes cast.

For there to be such widespread voter fraud, and for no one to have actually acted upon tips by good citizens like you to root out this evil, seems extremely unlikely.

However, I am more than willing to listen if the same scenario can be painted in a light to make sense of the above. Granted we are operating from a different set of experiences. You have seen what you "know" to be likely voter fraud and said nothing. I have not seen anything that makes me think that the people in my polling location were casting fraudulent votes. So your experiences have given you basis for the widespread belief that voter fraud is rampant by illegals.

Jon · Jan 26, 2017

all these people claiming they "saw illegals voting" make me laugh. I was in line to vote with my buddy from Puerto Rico, a natural born American Citizen and scoped a couple local Tumpies giving him the stinkeye after they heard his accent. More "evidence" of illegals voting for people who standards of evidence are so low they believe trump to be smart

Jon · Jan 26, 2017

I got to say I love a conspiracy so large that the left can get 3-5 Million people to vote illegally but not in swing states and no one bothered to take the buses to the upper midwest where less than 80K illegal votes could have swung the election.

So the left is clever enough to get millions of illegal votes but not smart enough to do it where it matters, got it

Bodhisattva · Jan 26, 2017

chanson78 said:
Since you suspect that there were illegals voting did you call the Federal Election Commission?

Here is their phone number: 1-800-424-9530

I am all for stopping people who aren't eligible to vote from voting. But unless you actually do something about it, anecdotes are just a way to bolster your argument on the internet.

My feeling is that you are likely not the only person in the US who believes they have witnessed voter fraud. I imagine that there are many who are more outraged than you, likely even outraged enough to call the FEC. Of all the studies performed regarding voter fraud, it is shown to be a fraction of a percent. This isn't an official government site, but here is where I am getting my data. Voter Fraud Facts Now I also understand that this site likely is qualified as an "alternative fact" site by you, so I am more than willing to look at any alternative information you have. However according to this, and many studies I have seen, the actual incidents are in the 0.00001% range of all votes cast.

For there to be such widespread voter fraud, and for no one to have actually acted upon tips by good citizens like you to root out this evil, seems extremely unlikely.

However, I am more than willing to listen if the same scenario can be painted in a light to make sense of the above. Granted we are operating from a different set of experiences. You have seen what you "know" to be likely voter fraud and said nothing. I have not seen anything that makes me think that the people in my polling location were casting fraudulent votes. So your experiences have given you basis for the widespread belief that voter fraud is rampant by illegals.

The people in question were allowed to vote. It's not like I knew their names or where they supposedly lived. They may have been legitimate. As I said, the ones who voted earlier could have been the shady ones. Or it could all have been a mistake by those keeping the rolls. I never claimed the incident was anything more than a curious observation. I didn't walk into the polling station with the FEC hotline number on speed dial.

I've also, on multiple occasions, interacted with illegals that had driver's licenses. I'm not sure if they were fake or not.

In sum, to suggest that cheaters don't cheat is a bit silly.

bama_wayne1 · Jan 26, 2017

chanson78 said:
Since you suspect that there were illegals voting did you call the Federal Election Commission?

Here is their phone number: 1-800-424-9530

I am all for stopping people who aren't eligible to vote from voting. But unless you actually do something about it, anecdotes are just a way to bolster your argument on the internet.

My feeling is that you are likely not the only person in the US who believes they have witnessed voter fraud. I imagine that there are many who are more outraged than you, likely even outraged enough to call the FEC. Of all the studies performed regarding voter fraud, it is shown to be a fraction of a percent. This isn't an official government site, but here is where I am getting my data. Voter Fraud Facts Now I also understand that this site likely is qualified as an "alternative fact" site by you, so I am more than willing to look at any alternative information you have. However according to this, and many studies I have seen, the actual incidents are in the 0.00001% range of all votes cast.

For there to be such widespread voter fraud, and for no one to have actually acted upon tips by good citizens like you to root out this evil, seems extremely unlikely.

However, I am more than willing to listen if the same scenario can be painted in a light to make sense of the above. Granted we are operating from a different set of experiences. You have seen what you "know" to be likely voter fraud and said nothing. I have not seen anything that makes me think that the people in my polling location were casting fraudulent votes. So your experiences have given you basis for the widespread belief that voter fraud is rampant by illegals.

Without a required photo id to vote I don't think anyone could know what they are seeing. I live in Alabama but if I walked into a polling location in Florida I wouldn't stand out in the crowd. Why would anyone think they had witnessed voter fraud? But if there is no id required and nobody is allowed to make sure I am who I say I am you could be witnessing voter fraud and never have a clue. I say all that to say the vote is important enough to be sure it doesn't happen. When this was all set up people couldn't physically manage going to multiple states to vote in one day but today that is not true. If our country thinks that people saying they might not accept the validity of an election will "endanger our democracy" it should be worth it to them to get a voter id.

tattooguy21 · Jan 26, 2017

CharminTide said:
.

sabanball said:
So

Seems legit

92tide said:
proof, we don't need no stinking proof.

Jon said:
evidence isn't important, it's how the little snowflakes feel that matters

So, I don't know about the illegal aliens voting, but here's a link with a study that isn't from fox, or vox, or whatever that says that whole "requiring id doesn't suppress voting." In it there are several other links for similar studies that say the same thing.

So, I guess I'm firmly on the side of id requirements.

https://journalistsresource.org/stu...cal-evidence-government-accountability-office

Jon · Jan 26, 2017

Bodhisattva said:
The people in question were allowed to vote. It's not like I knew there names or where they supposedly lived. They may have been legitimate. As I said, the ones who voted earlier could have been the shady ones. Or it could all have been a mistake by those keeping the rolls. I never claimed the incident was anything more than a curious observation. I didn't walk into the polling station with the FEC hotline number on speed dial.

I've also, on multiple occasions, interacted with illegals that had driver's licenses. I'm not sure if they were fake or not.

In sum, to suggest that cheaters don't cheat is a bit silly.

Isn't your wife Vietnamese? How many people at your polling station looked at her and are claiming they saw "some damn Chinese" illegal alien vote?

92tide · Jan 26, 2017

chanson78 said:
Since you suspect that there were illegals voting did you call the Federal Election Commission?

Here is their phone number: 1-800-424-9530

I am all for stopping people who aren't eligible to vote from voting. But unless you actually do something about it, anecdotes are just a way to bolster your argument on the internet.

My feeling is that you are likely not the only person in the US who believes they have witnessed voter fraud. I imagine that there are many who are more outraged than you, likely even outraged enough to call the FEC. Of all the studies performed regarding voter fraud, it is shown to be a fraction of a percent. This isn't an official government site, but here is where I am getting my data. Voter Fraud Facts Now I also understand that this site likely is qualified as an "alternative fact" site by you, so I am more than willing to look at any alternative information you have. However according to this, and many studies I have seen, the actual incidents are in the 0.00001% range of all votes cast.

For there to be such widespread voter fraud, and for no one to have actually acted upon tips by good citizens like you to root out this evil, seems extremely unlikely.

However, I am more than willing to listen if the same scenario can be painted in a light to make sense of the above. Granted we are operating from a different set of experiences. You have seen what you "know" to be likely voter fraud and said nothing. I have not seen anything that makes me think that the people in my polling location were casting fraudulent votes. So your experiences have given you basis for the widespread belief that voter fraud is rampant by illegals.

you are so illogical

chanson78 · Jan 26, 2017

Bodhisattva said:
The people in question were allowed to vote. It's not like I knew their names or where they supposedly lived. They may have been legitimate. As I said, the ones who voted earlier could have been the shady ones. Or it could all have been a mistake by those keeping the rolls. I never claimed the incident was anything more than a curious observation. I didn't walk into the polling station with the FEC hotline number on speed dial.

I've also, on multiple occasions, interacted with illegals that had driver's licenses. I'm not sure if they were fake or not.

In sum, to suggest that cheaters don't cheat is a bit silly.

Illegals are able to get drivers licenses in 12 states and DC.

If you were in one of those states it may not be a fake license.

92tide · Jan 26, 2017

Jon said:
Isn't your wife Vietnamese? How many people at your polling station looked at her and are claiming they saw "some damn Chinese" illegal alien vote?

stupid libtard, it ain't the chihnee that we are worried about, it's the messicans

Jon · Jan 26, 2017

tattooguy21 said:
So, I don't know about the illegal aliens voting, but here's a link with a study that isn't from fox, or vox, or whatever that says that whole "requiring id doesn't suppress voting." In it there are several other links for similar studies that say the same thing.

So, I guess I'm firmly on the side of id requirements.

https://journalistsresource.org/stu...cal-evidence-government-accountability-office

honestly, I don't have any issue with basic ID requirements either. As long as they are easy to come by. I think it should be easier to register to vote too (which the GOP is firmly against by the way) I feel like all citizens should be automatically registered to vote and have to opt out rather than in

Bodhisattva · Jan 26, 2017

Jon said:
I got to say I love a conspiracy so large that the left can get 3-5 Million people to vote illegally but not in swing states and no one bothered to take the buses to the upper midwest where less than 80K illegal votes could have swung the election.

So the left is clever enough to get millions of illegal votes but not smart enough to do it where it matters, got it

Well, I've always considered the left clever but not smart so .....

Bodhisattva · Jan 26, 2017

chanson78 said:
Illegals are able to get drivers licenses in 12 states and DC.

If you were in one of those states it may not be a fake license.

This happened in Virginia, but the driver's licenses these guys had were from Missouri.

Bodhisattva · Jan 26, 2017

Jon said:
Isn't your wife Vietnamese? How many people at your polling station looked at her and are claiming they saw "some damn Chinese" illegal alien vote?

You are missing quite a bit. First, my wife is a citizen and can prove it. Second, what I witnessed had nothing to do with the description of the voters. It had to do with the activity. It was double-voting - multiple people claiming to be so-and-so at such-and-such an address.

TheAccountant · Jan 26, 2017

Jon said:
So the left is clever enough to get millions of illegal votes but not smart enough to do it where it matters, got it

We know they weren't smart enough to know these were the places that mattered as evidenced by Hillary's lack of campaigning in these areas.

SEIU — which had wanted to go to Michigan from the beginning, but been ordered not to — dialed Clinton’s top campaign aides to tell them about the new plan. According to several people familiar with the call, Brooklyn was furious.
Turn that bus around, the Clinton team ordered SEIU. Those volunteers needed to stay in Iowa to fool Donald Trump into competing there, not drive to Michigan, where the Democrat’s models projected a 5-point win through the morning of Election Day.
Michigan organizers were shocked. It was the latest case of Brooklyn ignoring on-the-ground intel and pleas for help in a race that they felt slipping away at the end.
“They believed they were more experienced, which they were. They believed they were smarter, which they weren’t,” said Donnie Fowler, who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee during the final months of the campaign. “They believed they had better information, which they didn’t.”

CharminTide · Jan 26, 2017

tattooguy21 said:
So, I don't know about the illegal aliens voting, but here's a link with a study that isn't from fox, or vox, or whatever that says that whole "requiring id doesn't suppress voting." In it there are several other links for similar studies that say the same thing.

So, I guess I'm firmly on the side of id requirements.

https://journalistsresource.org/stu...cal-evidence-government-accountability-office

Ideologically, I don't have an issue with some basic ID requirement.

Those who deny the disparate impact of acquiring ID are, I think, being a bit dishonest. For someone working multiple jobs and struggling to pay bills, setting aside $100 and taking half a day off work (if they even can) to stand at the DMV in order to vote a few years down the road is far more burdensome than asking the same of a person who is more comfortable financially and has greater flexibility at work.

But again, the bigger point is that no evidence has ever shown voter fraud to be a problem that actually needs correction. And it's dangerous to ignore that multiple states have enacted voter ID laws in a way that selectively targeted demographic groups that tend to vote for one political party. These laws have been ruled unconstitutional for that reason. So weighing the lack of evidence on one side against the fact that voter ID laws have been used in discriminatory and unconstitutional ways, I'll have to see some evidence of need before I can support ID requirements.

MattinBama · Jan 26, 2017

I'm fine with voter ID's as well as easier registration as Jon mentioned.

But for those that believe so firmly that illegals are currently voting using driver's licenses whether fake and/or real or however else they're doing it (not necessarily aimed directly at you Bod, just in general) do you not think they would find a way to get fake voter IDs as well? Where there's a will.

CajunCrimson · Jan 26, 2017

chanson78 said:
so I am more than willing to look at any alternative information you have. However according to this, and many studies I have seen, the actual incidents are in the 0.00001% range of all votes cast.

If 120,000,000 people voted -- and using your .00001% of all votes cast is 1200 people nationwide.....and you think that's an accurate number?

In 59 voting districts in Philadelphia in 2012.....Romney got ZERO votes....ZERO. Not one person "accidentally" voted for Romney? Not one machine glitch?

Still, was there not one contrarian voter in those 59 divisions, where unofficial vote tallies have President Obama outscoring Romney by a combined 19,605 to 0?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/p...voting_wards__Mitt_Romney_got_zero_votes.html

Maybe your use of the word "incident" is the key here.

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