The policy and politics of Trumpism - Page 1133
  1. #14717
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Well, now, could they? Remember these myriad laws were all passed by Congress and signed by a president. The same would be true with statutes repealing the same. What president seeking to abuse these laws would sign the repeal into law? With a veto, an override would be necessary. With a "sheeple" Senate, which side depending on the prez in power, when would that happen?
    I was interpreting the stuff about the law passed in 1976 to say they could end the declaration of national emergency, and therefore end the presidents national emergency powers. It seems that congress has that power and has just never used it. This may be the president that forces congress to step up but I have little faith as long as McConell is the Senate leader.

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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by uafanataum View Post
    Nice article but scary. It still clearly says congress can get rid of these powers if they grow some balls.
    Nope...

    [qutoe]he Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. This means that for Congress to rescind a declared emergency, not only must they pass the joint resolution, but the President must sign the legislation. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress. [/quote]
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  3. #14719
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Nope...

    [qutoe]he Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. This means that for Congress to rescind a declared emergency, not only must they pass the joint resolution, but the President must sign the legislation. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress.
    [/QUOTE]

    Why, that's one of the dumbest laws I ever read. It's like America set itself up for failure if we ever got a narcissist for president.
    ETA. It's literally probably worse than when Congress basically let presidents declare war without calling it war so they do not have to get congressional approval. (And I thought that was one of the worst laws until tonight)
    Last edited by uafanataum; January 11th, 2019 at 10:53 PM.

  4. #14720
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Nope...

    [qutoe]he Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. This means that for Congress to rescind a declared emergency, not only must they pass the joint resolution, but the President must sign the legislation. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress.
    [/QUOTE]

    Read the second to the last paragraph in the article. A willing congress could significantly reduce the emergency powers of the president. Ofcourse, one chamber of congress is run by McConell.

  5. #14721
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Why, that's one of the dumbest laws I ever read. It's like America set itself up for failure if we ever got a narcissist for president.
    ETA. It's literally probably worse than when Congress basically let presidents declare war without calling it war so they do not have to get congressional approval. (And I thought that was one of the worst laws until tonight)[/QUOTE]I generally track these things and it's far worse than I thought. I don't understand why a president would ever end a state of emergency, particularly this president...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Why, that's one of the dumbest laws I ever read. It's like America set itself up for failure if we ever got a narcissist for president.
    ETA. It's literally probably worse than when Congress basically let presidents declare war without calling it war so they do not have to get congressional approval. (And I thought that was one of the worst laws until tonight)
    I generally track these things and it's far worse than I thought. I don't understand why a president would ever end a state of emergency, particularly this president...[/QUOTE]

    If he abuses this too much ( to the extent only Trump could) I think we may see a Julius Caesar type moment. At some point enough will be enough.

  7. #14723
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Read the second to the last paragraph in the article. A willing congress could significantly reduce the emergency powers of the president. Ofcourse, one chamber of congress is run by McConell.
    Are you talking about this paragraph:

    By contrast, the dangers posed by emergency powers that are written into statute can be mitigated through the simple expedient of changing the law. Committees in the House could begin this process now by undertaking a thorough review of existing emergency powers and declarations. Based on that review, Congress could repeal the laws that are obsolete or unnecessary. It could revise others to include stronger protections against abuse. It could issue new criteria for emergency declarations, require a connection between the nature of the emergency and the powers invoked, and prohibit indefinite emergencies. It could limit the powers set forth in peads.
    You do realize that all of these actions require a presidential signature, or the override of a veto? I don't draw much comfort from these suggestions because I can't see Trump signing anything reducing his power, even if McConnell had a change of heart, difficult for a man with no heart to do...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  8. #14724
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    So where does all this leave us? The shutdown continues. No progress is being made on ANY legislation. The president is threatening to declare a national emergency, giving him the power to shut down or at least exert control over the internet. He can probably shut down CNN and NBC. He might be able to jail his political enemies. He most certainly can fire the Special Counsel. If he take the Emergency Powers step, we are living in an autocracy run by a megalomaniac who appears to be on drugs, and who is probably beholden to both Russia and Saudi Arabia. Is it time to cave and give him 5B for the wall?
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  9. #14725
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by bobstod View Post
    So where does all this leave us? The shutdown continues. No progress is being made on ANY legislation. The president is threatening to declare a national emergency, giving him the power to shut down or at least exert control over the internet. He can probably shut down CNN and NBC. He might be able to jail his political enemies. He most certainly can fire the Special Counsel. If he take the Emergency Powers step, we are living in an autocracy run by a megalomaniac who appears to be on drugs, and who is probably beholden to both Russia and Saudi Arabia. Is it time to cave and give him 5B for the wall?
    To answer that one might need to pose the question... Do you want to give him his signature victory to enable him to win the 2020 election or throw the ball to the Supreme Court before we go further down a path that cannot be retraced?

  10. #14726
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by bobstod View Post
    So where does all this leave us? The shutdown continues. No progress is being made on ANY legislation. The president is threatening to declare a national emergency, giving him the power to shut down or at least exert control over the internet. He can probably shut down CNN and NBC. He might be able to jail his political enemies. He most certainly can fire the Special Counsel. If he take the Emergency Powers step, we are living in an autocracy run by a megalomaniac who appears to be on drugs, and who is probably beholden to both Russia and Saudi Arabia. Is it time to cave and give him 5B for the wall?
    No, a thousand times no. Once you give in to a blackmailing hostage taker, there's no end to it.

    And now we are told the FBI opened an official investigation shortly after the election into whether Trump is a Russian puppet or an operative.

    The pot can't keep simmering forever, it's got to boil over at some point.

  11. #14727
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by bobstod View Post
    So where does all this leave us? The shutdown continues. No progress is being made on ANY legislation. The president is threatening to declare a national emergency, giving him the power to shut down or at least exert control over the internet. He can probably shut down CNN and NBC. He might be able to jail his political enemies. He most certainly can fire the Special Counsel. If he take the Emergency Powers step, we are living in an autocracy run by a megalomaniac who appears to be on drugs, and who is probably beholden to both Russia and Saudi Arabia. Is it time to cave and give him 5B for the wall?
    Agree with others. Trump isnt negotiating, hes lying. Hes blackmailing, or trying to (something thugs are good at but Trump is just a punk).
    If Trump would agree to the DACA plan that was part of an earlier bill that passed, he should get his money. If he wont agree to that he deserves and should get nothing.
    Morons on Faux News, Rash and Horseface all talked him out of the DACA deal. Leave it shut down until everyone quits working, and that will happen sooner than you think. And when that happens, the government will reopen - I dont think McConnell wants to drive back and forth to Kentucky.



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  12. #14728
    BamaNation All-American bobstod's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    By sea said:
    If Trump would agree to the DACA plan that was part of an earlier bill that passed, he should get his money. If he won’t agree to that he deserves and should get nothing.

    I totally agree that he deserves nothing for his blatantly political use of good people's paychecks (but he can relate, right?). My point is that once he takes the next threatened step, we have no clear way to hinder his reckless trashing of every freedom and right given us by the courts and the constitution. Can there be any doubt that he admires dictators? Do you doubt that he believes that if only he could make every decision based on his emotions and his infallible 'gut' feelings and without having to read anything or think deeply, that the world would be a 'tremendously, beautiful place full of winning'! I admit to fearing deeply that we are on the brink of the end of America as we know and love it. If we allow this maniac to suspend any of the last few checks and balances to his destructive whimsy we may just slide over the edge...
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  13. #14729
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by twofbyc View Post
    Agree with others. Trump isn’t negotiating, he’s lying. He’s blackmailing, or trying to (something thugs are good at but Trump is just a punk).
    If Trump would agree to the DACA plan that was part of an earlier bill that passed, he should get his money. If he won’t agree to that he deserves and should get nothing.
    Morons on Faux News, Rash and Horseface all talked him out of the DACA deal. Leave it shut down until everyone quits working, and that will happen sooner than you think. And when that happens, the government will reopen - I don’t think McConnell wants to drive back and forth to Kentucky.



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    Not to mention the fact that months would be required to acquire land to build a foot of wall! In the meantime $ millions of drugs drive through the ports of entry every day due to lack of the proper technology.

    One fact that occurred to me is how the MAGA ranchers are going to feel when the government cuts their ranches in half in order to build a wall. Let alone the fact that much of this land is mountainous desert with no roads for access. So remote as to being practically impossible for other than the the most fit well equipped human being to pass through.

    It is not about building a wall. It is about the ridiculous campaign slogan "I will build a wall and Mexico will pay for it!"

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