The policy and politics of Trumpism - Page 1134
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by bobstod View Post
    By sea said:
    If Trump would agree to the DACA plan that was part of an earlier bill that passed, he should get his money. If he won’t agree to that he deserves and should get nothing.

    I totally agree that he deserves nothing for his blatantly political use of good people's paychecks (but he can relate, right?). My point is that once he takes the next threatened step, we have no clear way to hinder his reckless trashing of every freedom and right given us by the courts and the constitution. Can there be any doubt that he admires dictators? Do you doubt that he believes that if only he could make every decision based on his emotions and his infallible 'gut' feelings and without having to read anything or think deeply, that the world would be a 'tremendously, beautiful place full of winning'! I admit to fearing deeply that we are on the brink of the end of America as we know and love it. If we allow this maniac to suspend any of the last few checks and balances to his destructive whimsy we may just slide over the edge...
    this is what "the people" voted for. i hope that a significant number of them realize that what they voted for is really bad and start voting to fix that.
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by bobstod View Post
    By sea said:
    If Trump would agree to the DACA plan that was part of an earlier bill that passed, he should get his money. If he won’t agree to that he deserves and should get nothing.

    I totally agree that he deserves nothing for his blatantly political use of good people's paychecks (but he can relate, right?). My point is that once he takes the next threatened step, we have no clear way to hinder his reckless trashing of every freedom and right given us by the courts and the constitution. Can there be any doubt that he admires dictators? Do you doubt that he believes that if only he could make every decision based on his emotions and his infallible 'gut' feelings and without having to read anything or think deeply, that the world would be a 'tremendously, beautiful place full of winning'! I admit to fearing deeply that we are on the brink of the end of America as we know and love it. If we allow this maniac to suspend any of the last few checks and balances to his destructive whimsy we may just slide over the edge...
    I don't disagree with you about the danger. We have seen this coming even before he was president. I would ask you however, isn't this the same type of thinking that led to Munich in the 1930's. Would he stop with the wall or would there be a next time where he undertakes the many abuses of power you enumerated above.

    I can only hope that Mueller does not allow the Trump AG and White House to submerge his report.

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    The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by bobstod View Post
    By sea said:
    If Trump would agree to the DACA plan that was part of an earlier bill that passed, he should get his money. If he wonít agree to that he deserves and should get nothing.

    I totally agree that he deserves nothing for his blatantly political use of good people's paychecks (but he can relate, right?). My point is that once he takes the next threatened step, we have no clear way to hinder his reckless trashing of every freedom and right given us by the courts and the constitution. Can there be any doubt that he admires dictators? Do you doubt that he believes that if only he could make every decision based on his emotions and his infallible 'gut' feelings and without having to read anything or think deeply, that the world would be a 'tremendously, beautiful place full of winning'! I admit to fearing deeply that we are on the brink of the end of America as we know and love it. If we allow this maniac to suspend any of the last few checks and balances to his destructive whimsy we may just slide over the edge...
    Iím not at all convinced the courts will give him a pass. If they do, weíre screwed.
    Roberts doesnít like him. He will lean on precedent. Plus, as has been mentioned, the time it will take to implement this will push it beyond 2020 (if he gets his way), and he will have a Democratic Congress to deal with if by some curse he gets re-elected (which Iíll bet even money right now ainít happening). He still might resign soon (to save his kids from being indicted). So Iím not abandoning all hope.
    Yeah, it looks bad. Iím still hoping Americans will grow some cojones and strike; so Trump fires all the air traffic controllers - whoís he gonna replace them with? If just those who donít support him and his wall strike, the country is at a standstill in 48-72 hours. We canít be forced to work at gunpoint (we all have guns too).
    Iím ready to tear it all down and start over because I donít see the country recovering from this. Evil has been loosed on the land and itís not leaving willingly.


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    Last edited by twofbyc; January 12th, 2019 at 02:33 PM.
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  5. #14733
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by UAH View Post
    There are certainly centrist on each side which mirrors a large portion of Americans who lie in the middle ground. It is difficult to see a left that has moved at all particularly looking at FDR and LBJ in terms of legislative accomplishments.
    And there are a bunch of conservative Democrats now like there were there then modified radicalism, right?

    And there a bunch of liberal Republicans that a President has to work with even to get something going, right?

    That's what I'm talking about.


    Let me also point this out: the primary process that really went full nonsense in 1972 has caused much of this. Almost definition the activists who get involved in party politics are "true believers" that have a specific goal in mind whether outlawing abortion or free college. These are the people who get revved up and spend their lives working on this and they control the nomination process to a large degree. The Democrats suffered first in this thing by barfing up McGovern and Mondale and then fleeing to Dukakis out of fear of Jesse Jackson winning it. (Carter won because eight liberals split that vote and conservatives/moderates who voted in 1976 and have shrunk to almost nothing voted for Carter out of fear of George Wallace winning it). The Republicans tended to be more authoritarian ("it's so and so's turn") and didn't divide their votes proportionally in the primaries in most states as the Democrats did.

    My point is that the rest of us who aren't party members of either party (unless you're in an open primary state) are stuck with whoever the activists barf up for us.

    And most of the time the centrists in the party get whacked by the ranting lunatics in the party. It's more prevalent in recent years with GOP dogmatism, no argument there, but Blanche Lincoln suffered the same fate in Arkansas in 2010. The unions didn't like her vote (but never mind that Arkansas had the lowest union membership in the USA) so they targeted her in a summer primary. She won, but they bloodied her so badly she got creamed. I live in Ark when she was elected and let me tell ya - she was a female Bill Clinton in terms of convincing you she was in agreement with your side (whichever one that was) by not actually answering the question you asked.


    Anyone who makes the "mistake" nowadays of trying to do something with the other party is going to get whacked in a primary. That is the direct result of the loss of centrist governing in both parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by UAH View Post
    An admittedly superficial look would say that with the Clinton's we began a rightward drift that was picked up and weaponized by Dick Cheney to an entirely new virulent strain of right wing extremism that we see in evidence today. You are either for us or our bitter enemy that forces people to move far right to make any compromise at all. Case in point the approach Trump is taking to demand his border wall!
    Bush weaponized that in the fallout of 9/11, and I was screaming bloody murder about it then.

    (I've never been convinced Dick Cheney was near the "man behind the curtain" a lot of folks want to say he was. Cheney was one of the most popular guys in both parties going back to when he was Ford's chief of staff).


    And FTR, the Clintons didn't "start" what's going on now any more than Lee Atwater "started" gutter politics. They all benefited from it, but none began it.
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    And there are a bunch of conservative Democrats now like there were there then modified radicalism, right?

    And there a bunch of liberal Republicans that a President has to work with even to get something going, right?

    That's what I'm talking about.


    Let me also point this out: the primary process that really went full nonsense in 1972 has caused much of this. Almost definition the activists who get involved in party politics are "true believers" that have a specific goal in mind whether outlawing abortion or free college. These are the people who get revved up and spend their lives working on this and they control the nomination process to a large degree. The Democrats suffered first in this thing by barfing up McGovern and Mondale and then fleeing to Dukakis out of fear of Jesse Jackson winning it. (Carter won because eight liberals split that vote and conservatives/moderates who voted in 1976 and have shrunk to almost nothing voted for Carter out of fear of George Wallace winning it). The Republicans tended to be more authoritarian ("it's so and so's turn") and didn't divide their votes proportionally in the primaries in most states as the Democrats did.

    My point is that the rest of us who aren't party members of either party (unless you're in an open primary state) are stuck with whoever the activists barf up for us.

    And most of the time the centrists in the party get whacked by the ranting lunatics in the party. It's more prevalent in recent years with GOP dogmatism, no argument there, but Blanche Lincoln suffered the same fate in Arkansas in 2010. The unions didn't like her vote (but never mind that Arkansas had the lowest union membership in the USA) so they targeted her in a summer primary. She won, but they bloodied her so badly she got creamed. I live in Ark when she was elected and let me tell ya - she was a female Bill Clinton in terms of convincing you she was in agreement with your side (whichever one that was) by not actually answering the question you asked.


    Anyone who makes the "mistake" nowadays of trying to do something with the other party is going to get whacked in a primary. That is the direct result of the loss of centrist governing in both parties.



    Bush weaponized that in the fallout of 9/11, and I was screaming bloody murder about it then.

    (I've never been convinced Dick Cheney was near the "man behind the curtain" a lot of folks want to say he was. Cheney was one of the most popular guys in both parties going back to when he was Ford's chief of staff).


    And FTR, the Clintons didn't "start" what's going on now any more than Lee Atwater "started" gutter politics. They all benefited from it, but none began it.
    George H.W. disagrees...
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  7. #14735
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by UAH View Post
    I don't disagree with you about the danger. We have seen this coming even before he was president. I would ask you however, isn't this the same type of thinking that led to Munich in the 1930's. Would he stop with the wall or would there be a next time where he undertakes the many abuses of power you enumerated above.

    I can only hope that Mueller does not allow the Trump AG and White House to submerge his report.
    It will go to Congress; theyíll subpoena him and it, if necessary.
    There is no ďreverseĒ on this train. Itís going to reach its destination, whatever that may be.



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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    UAH said:
    I don't disagree with you about the danger. We have seen this coming even before he was president. I would ask you however, isn't this the same type of thinking that led to Munich in the 1930's. Would he stop with the wall or would there be a next time where he undertakes the many abuses of power you enumerated above.

    I can only hope that Mueller does not allow the Trump AG and White House to submerge his report.

    Amen to the last sentence! And yes, I admit you are right. The same threat would be short in coming. It seems he is backing away from that threat today, which Pray God he does.

    I have often wondered what my actions would have been had I been a white, non-Jewish German citizen in the middle 1930s. I tend to follow rules. I was a bigot as a teen. It may have depended on what age I was when Hitler was in his most dominant stage...1938, 1939. If I had been a stupid teenager I may have been convinced. The propaganda machine was powerful. I sure hope I would have found a way to escape....
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    I canít believe Trumpers actually trust this slug.
    Nixon says hello.

    https://apple.news/APZ4WuB8vSG2uO3R4jl6T7w


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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by twofbyc View Post
    I can’t believe Trumpers actually trust this slug.
    Nixon says hello.

    https://apple.news/APZ4WuB8vSG2uO3R4jl6T7w


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    It is a gut emotional thing which I don't understand. He has already surpassed Nixon. Nixon had not sold out to a foreign, enemy power. The only question now is how much it will take to nudge consciences into action - seventeen Republican senators. Pence will then pardon Trump and all his gang and then couldn't be elected dog catcher...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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    ďI would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.Ē Albert Camus

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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    It is a gut emotional thing which I don't understand. He has already surpassed Nixon. Nixon had not sold out to a foreign, enemy power. The only question now is how much it will take to nudge consciences into action - seventeen Republican senators. Pence will then pardon Trump and all his gang and then couldn't be elected dog catcher...
    Iím involved online with some folks from Europe - Britain especially - and some of them donít really like him but maintain ďhe does what he says heíll doĒ; when I point out to them the fallacy of such a belief, they retreat to confessing they donít know much about American politics.
    I think itís his bluff and bluster that attracts some, character content notwithstanding. They just automatically believe him.
    Sad.
    I am leaning more and more to his resignation to keep his kids from being indicted. I donít think heíd let Ivanka be arrested. Of course he can do nothing about the State of New York (thank God).


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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    This is the darkest timeline.

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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomas666 View Post
    Another brick in the wall....or another log on the fire.
    He canít help himself.


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