The policy and politics of Trumpism - Page 1377
  1. #17889
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    This post/summary is entirely stolen from reddit (link):

    Link to the indictment. Among various campaign finance charges, here is the bombshell:

    One of these "officials" is almost certain to be Yuriy Lutsenko. According to NPR, Parnas was born in Ukraine, is one of Rudy's "fixers", and was directly involved in pressuring both Ukrainian prosecutors involved in the conspiracy to rat.... Biden:


    This means SDNY has just arrested the bagman in the original quid pro quo with Yuriy Lutsenko to exchange Maria Yovanovitch's termination for investigations into Biden and 2016.

    You might remember Maria Yovanovitch as the woman whom Trump said "was going to go through some things" in his July call with Zelenskyy. Her firing by Donald Trump was the "quid" in the original quid pro quo conspiracy that Giuliani arranged in March 2019 with Ukraine's top prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko. Here is the run down:

    - In March of 2019, Yovanovitch gives a speech blasting the failure of Ukraine's anticorruption prosecutors, and advocated for the removal of Lutsenko.

    - Two weeks later, Lutsenko fabricated dirt on Yovanovitch and laundered it through a conspiracy theorist/pretend journalist at the Hill named John Solomon.

    - At the same time Giuliani forges a deal with Lutsenko: we will get Yovanovitch terminated (a firing Donald Trump personally ordered), and in exchange Lutsenko fabricates the investigations Giuliani requests to help Trump politically (again, laundered through conspiracy theorist Solomon).

    - In April, The deal falls apart when Zelenskyy wins a landslide election on an anti-corruption platform and fires Lutsenko.

    - In May, Giuliani blasts the Lutsenko firing, praising him as "a much more honest guy" than his predecessor Victor Shokin, who hilariously is the guy Biden helped get fired. Giuliani travels to Ukraine for the expressed purpose of preserving the quid pro quo with Lutsenko's successor:

    - But it doesn't work, and in July they decide that Trump himself needs to pressure Zelensky directly. In the July phone call, Trump personally admonishes Zelenskyy for screwing up the Lutsenko deal:

    The rest is history. Zelenskyy asks about military aid, Trump says "I would like you do us a favor, though", and then directly asks Zelenskyy for the same investigations into Biden and the Black Ledger that they had originally extracted from Lutsenko in exchange for Yovanovitch's termination. Lutsenko himself, now with no hope of getting his job back, readily admits the allegations of wrong doing by Hunter Biden were fabrications.

    Now SDNY has arrested two men who appear to have done the legwork coordinating with Lutsenko.

    If you've read the indictment (as I have ) you will know that there are multiple unnamed people in it.

    Starting to get clarity on a bit

    Congressman - 1 for instance appears to be Pete Sessions

    https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10...es-indictment/

    now I want to know who Foreign National 1 is
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  2. #17890
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    in case any of you are wondering if all that cash bought access....

    Here is Parnas "Hard at work" with Pete Sessions aka Congressman - 1




    and someone else he was able to meet with

    "There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist." - Terry Pratchett

  3. #17891
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Jon's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Looks like Congressman #2 is non other than Kevin "I think Putin pays Trump and Rorbacher" McCarthy

    they say boats start to sink slow then finally go fast. Feels like we are hitting that inflection point to me
    "There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist." - Terry Pratchett

  4. #17892
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Crimson1967's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Despite promising not to do so, the Trump campaign plays a Prince song at his campaign rally in Minneapolis.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...innesota-rally


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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    I would have put this in the joke thread, but it's not funny. The American people need to be asking what's going on in his brain. Yesterday, he couldn't come up with "Ukraine" at first...

    Name:  Trump, figuring it out.jpg
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  6. #17894
    BamaNation First Team kyla_mg's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    What I really don't understand... Those who are more traditional conservatives - low taxes, small government, fiscal responsibility, strong military. What I would call classical conservative. (George Will being one) I tend this way, but am socially liberal.

    So the classical conservatives.... how on earth are they justifying him asking Ukraine and China to investigate Biden as ok? Its illegal to ask for foreign assistance in destroying a political opponent.
    If Biden conducted illegal activity, he should go to jail. But at the same time, if Trunp used his influence in government to gain $ for him or his kids (I believe he is, and evidence is coming out, but besides the point) then he should go to jail. Our laws are our laws. Some are good, some bad, but the white crime ones are a different level.
    We have foreign donations (that can be an ignorance plea, even with the pics). That is also illegal. The ALGOP took $600+.
    Are there some Democrats doing it, probably, they should also go to jail. You don't get a pass because of the letter beside your name. If he gets away with all of this, running the White House like a mob boss, then every president going forward will have too much power. (They already do)

    But if the classical conservatives also side with Trump, because party loyalty, then it will put the Republican party back decades. They are stepping on the constitution and the rule of law. Nixon will look like a saint after this (he did open trade with China). He was impeached for much less. I grew up conservative, because of a strict adherence to the constitution. With the current GOP leadership, they can't say they're Constitutionalists. They can't claim small government. They can't say they're strong on the military (bc they blindside the Pentagon and are now isolationists). All they have left is social issues. And for many of us under 45 (generation x and younger) - we are more socially liberal. I dont care how you dress, worship, what color you are, or who you marry, and most of the people my age that vote Republican don't either.

    The old guard of the GOP is pushing people into either being moderate, or liberal. Because of one deranged man. Most of us value the country over party. And have or will abandon ship. And they deserve it.


    Sorry for the long rant, I've been sick on the couch for days, and yall are the closest I've had to adult conversation. Just wanted to step back from the noise and news and offer my thoughts on the long term ramifications of all this.


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  7. #17895
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by kyla_mg View Post
    So the classical conservatives.... how on earth are they justifying him asking Ukraine and China to investigate Biden as ok?
    From my limited circle, they don't actually try to justify the action, but they do justify their continued support of Trump/Republicans by claiming that the Democrats are worse and that no matter how bad he is, it's better than the alternative. Trump could invade Canada and he'd be more restrained than the warhawk Dems. He could ride this trade war straight into a recession and it will be because the Dems control the House purse-strings. He could execute Pelosi during the SOTU and it will just be him punching back after being unfairly targeted.

    They have an irrational fear of "the other" that cannot be rationalized away. It's a sickness, reinforced by certain news/opinion outlets and the curated groupthink of their social media. You can watch them start to struggle with the cognitive dissonance of "it was bad, but it's not impeachable" or "the House didn't follow some protocol minutiae so the entire inquiry is invalid." But just wait -- after a few more therapy sessions with Rush and Tucker, they'll be right as rain.

  8. #17896
    BamaNation First Team kyla_mg's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    But I thought we were all isolationist now and want to stay out of historical foreign conflicts

    https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1182687284421890049?s=19


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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    From my limited circle, they don't actually try to justify the action, but they do justify their continued support of Trump/Republicans by claiming that the Democrats are worse and that no matter how bad he is, it's better than the alternative. Trump could invade Canada and he'd be more restrained than the warhawk Dems. He could ride this trade war straight into a recession and it will be because the Dems control the House purse-strings. He could execute Pelosi during the SOTU and it will just be him punching back after being unfairly targeted.

    They have an irrational fear of "the other" that cannot be rationalized away. It's a sickness, reinforced by certain news/opinion outlets and the curated groupthink of their social media. You can watch them start to struggle with the cognitive dissonance of "it was bad, but it's not impeachable" or "the House didn't follow some protocol minutiae so the entire inquiry is invalid." But just wait -- after a few more therapy sessions with Rush and Tucker, they'll be right as rain.
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  10. #17898
    BamaNation First Team kyla_mg's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    No matter the hindsight thoughts on Iraq, Bush had congressional approval for funds.
    We are now at a point of going to the Saudis (who aren't our friends) to defend oil fields against Iran. Wouldn't a war declaration or approval of funds be necessary to engage in conflict?
    So we assist in attack on allies, while literally going to war for oil for a quasi-enemy.
    The whole thing is insane.

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  12. #17900
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by kyla_mg View Post
    No matter the hindsight thoughts on Iraq, Bush had congressional approval for funds.
    We are now at a point of going to the Saudis (who aren't our friends) to defend oil fields against Iran. Wouldn't a war declaration or approval of funds be necessary to engage in conflict?
    So we assist in attack on allies, while literally going to war for oil for a quasi-enemy.
    The whole thing is insane.

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  13. #17901
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Betsy facing jail?

    Newsweek
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    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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