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  1. #14
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by tidegrandpa View Post
    I know you surely have done the math on the measly $7 million(vs, the $500 million Solyndra guarantee) over 10 year subsidy. The average job that this keeps pays over $20.00 per hour or over $41,000 per year for 800-1000 jobs. The subsidy amounts to roughly $700.00 per job per year.
    We should compare that cost to the welfare benefits that might be provided otherwise. I assume $700 would be the better deal.
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  3. #15
    BamaNation All-American sabanball's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Another WSJ piece not an op ed piece

    Carrier Will Receive $7 Million in Tax Breaks to Keep Jobs in Indiana

    “I called Greg and I said, ‘It’s really important we have to do something because you have a lot of people leaving,’” Mr. Trump said Thursday, adding that he dismissed the CEO when Mr. Hayes responded that he had already built a new facility in Mexico. “Rent it. Sell it or knock it down. I don’t care.”

    The deal that emerged this week is a relatively standard package of state incentives, according to people familiar with the agreement. In exchange for $7 million in tax breaks, Carrier will invest $16 million in its facilities in the state.

  4. #16
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by sabanball View Post
    From Trump's speech at Carrier, the $16M figure is a minimum number. The CEO apparently expects the investment to be significantly higher than $16M.

  5. #17
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    i was going to suggest the google route on wsj (works for nyt too i have heard).

    on the trail, trump implied he would "make" companies keep jobs here by being a tough negotiator. sounds like his idea of "making" them is just giving them a sweetheart deal to keep a few of their jobs here. so like you say, now it's set up where there is an incentive companies threaten to move jobs overseas unless they get a sweetheart deal. sounds a lot like some of those pro sports stadium deals. i expect to see lots of shiny objects like this in the next few years. i also expect many of our fellow countryfolk, especially the ones that consistently rail against federal government overreach, especially in the executive branch, to extol the virtues of said shiny objects.
    Of course that's what will happen. It will be no different than Obamacare. Those who were "for it" will go out of their way to put on front street of how many people it has "helped" and how much money it has "saved" people. Yet completely ignoring the stories of people it has financially crippled in the process.

    And I have no doubt that is exactly what will happen with dyed in the wool Trump folks. Any little "success story" they can conjure up they will parade it around in front of everybody to "prove" to the "haters" they were wrong. Yet completely ignore the damage it did on the other end. It's what people do. That's what people who are married to political parties do. They refuse to admit that what they "rooted" so hard for, screamed from the mountain tops of how great it was going to be, didn't work as great as they proclaimed it would. Welcome to politics, you must be new here.
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  6. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/politi...wan/index.html

    (CNN)President-elect Donald Trump spoke with Taiwan's President Friday, threatening to ignite a diplomatic showdown with China even before he takes office.

    "President-elect Trump spoke with President Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan, who offered her congratulations," Trump's transition team said in a statement. "During the discussion, they noted the close economic, political, and security ties exists between Taiwan and the United States. President-elect Trump also congratulated President Tsai on becoming President of Taiwan earlier this year."

    Trump's conversation marks the first publicly reported call between a US President or President-elect and the leader of Taiwan since Washington established diplomatic relations with Beijing in 1979, said Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

    The telephone call is certain to incense China, which considers Taiwan a renegade province. It is the first major sign of the unpredictability that Trump has vowed to bring to long-held US relations with the rest of the world.

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  7. #19
    BamaNation Hall of Fame NationalTitles16's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    We have one grand thread on the campaign and another on Trump's personnel. I feel like we need a separate space devoted to his policy decisions, since he's already making some.

    WSJ slams Trump's Carrier negotiation
    I'm slightly surprised yet delighted that you have faith in the free market. I'm sure you'll apply that thought to every part of the economy.
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  8. #20
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles16 View Post
    I'm slightly surprised yet delighted that you have faith in the free market. I'm sure you'll apply that thought to every part of the economy.
    I realize you're being a bit snarky, but be sure to read the subsequent post and don't misinterpret a link to the WSJ as me advocating laissez-faire.

  9. #21
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Can't tell if carefully calculated or carelessly ignorant.


  10. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame NationalTitles16's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    I realize you're being a bit snarky, but be sure to read the subsequent post and don't misinterpret a link to the WSJ as me advocating laissez-faire.
    Sarcastic is my prefered adjective. Ignoring that and using snarky instead is a microaggression.

    I lean toward laissez-faire but pragmatic enough to understand that minimal regulations are needed to help prevent fraud and the like. I don't agree with Trump on trade, mainly because free trade always leads to great things Even when not for every single person, overall the results are great unless you happen to be one of the people adversely effected and don't have the ability to adapt to something better (not always a failure of the person). Protectionism was the precursor to the Boston Tea Party.

    I didn't misinterpret and didn't really expect you to believe in the free market, though by and large you should more than you seem to. Same for the protectionist populist republicans.

    The free market will never be perfect, but the freest markets in world history have made the USA the richest country in world history. Pretty good track record. And before we go there, no, crony capitalism isn't the free market.
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  11. #23
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles16 View Post
    I [am] pragmatic enough to understand that minimal regulations are needed to help prevent fraud and the like.
    I think this is where most reasonable people fall; the differences lie in the definition of "minimal." I'll take net neutrality as an example, since Trump's team has foolishly indicated a desire to reverse course on this.

    1) ISPs like Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, and others have slowly instituted data caps on all customers. Both on mobile and at home.
    2) They also have policies where certain kinds of internet traffic are exempt from these data caps. They tend to favor traffic from websites and programming that are owned by the ISP. AT&T owns DirecTV, and streaming its programming on their network doesn't count toward one's data cap. T-mobile has agreements with music and video services that pay the ISP to be exempt from its data caps. If AT&T is allowed to continue unchallenged, then expect Comcast, which owns NBC, to start prioritizing its networking over others.
    3) This kind of vertical lock-in to a single company's internet access and networking is hugely anti-competitive. It violates the core tenet of an open internet which is that we, the users and consumers, should determine who wins and loses in this market of information, not the internet monopoly you happen to live beneath.
    4) Left unregulated, the business incentive is to continue these undoubtedly profitable anti-consumer practices. What happens when Comcast decides you need to get your news from NBC only, and restricts user traffic to the NYT or WSJ? At that point it's no longer just anti-competitive, it's anti-democratic.

    Now, I realize ISPs are a largely monopolistic enterprise, and most people oppose unregulated monopolies. I bring it up because I think it's an incredibly important issue, and because Trump has flipped 180 degrees on his view of ISPs like AT&T (specifically their enormous and pending Time Warner merger) since the election.

    But I would make the same argument for financial regulation. Fraud like we recently saw with Wells Fargo, to me, underscores the need for more oversight with regard to financial institutions. When their calculated business mistakes can lead the country into recession -- a consequence from which these CEOs and high-level decision-makers are largely immune -- I don't feel a laissez-faire approach is acceptable. Don't get me wrong: I think competition is among the best motivators for progress and achievement, and the marketplace usually does this well. But I also think regulation is necessary in cases where the Venn diagram of business success and consumer benefit don't overlap.

  12. #24
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    You know, a lot of people say one thing on the campaign trail and then another once they're elected.

    I'd think anyone who voted for Carter, Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43, or Obama would understand that and accept it.

    (I'm sure it happened before, but I'm not that old).

    He said one thing before you had sex and another afterward. Happens all the time.

    She said she was on the pill, oops, she lied, and you're on the hook for it.


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  13. #25
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Btw, let me point out one that some conservatives don't seem to want to comprehend: there's a HUGE difference in de-regulation of something like the transportation industry and the thrift industry (ex: the savings and loan scandal, etc)
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  14. #26
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    He said one thing before you had sex and another afterward. Happens all the time.
    So you're saying I can kick Trump out the front door and tell him to call an Uber if he wants to get back home?

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