The policy and politics of Trumpism - Page 5
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  1. #53
    BamaNation All-American tattooguy21's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by CharminTide View Post
    College .

    3) Keep the ACA and fix the broken aspects: This is the most reasonable option, and what I've been hoping they would do for years. But politically, this is now impossible. They've demonized the law and promised a repeal for so long that they cannot simply keep and reform it.

    4) Repeal and do nothing: Political suicide.
    Regardless of ones feeling on the ACA, at this point, to completely repeal or to repeal and at a later date replace would screw over millions of Americans. Whatever is done would need to be immediate to prevent any gaps.

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  3. #54
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooguy21 View Post
    Regardless of ones feeling on the ACA, at this point, to completely repeal or to repeal and at a later date replace would screw over millions of Americans. Whatever is done would need to be immediate to prevent any gaps.
    So I have a couple questions. These are not aimed directly at you tattooguy21, but you happened to give me a handy jumping off point. I would be interested in anyone's point of view on these.

    Aren't the people who are getting ACA now, typically considered people who didn't deserve/need health care by those who were arguing against the ACA? I seem to recall many people saying that it is something that should be a personal responsibility.

    If that is the case, and you believe that it would "screw over millions of Americans" isn't it really just bringing it back to the status quo of what it was beforehand?

    Considering all of the above, do you believe that the stance of those on the right has sufficiently changes such that health care is something that should be within the domain of the government, or is it more of a perception thing? Now that you have given the poor health care it is too politically costly to take it away now.

  4. #55
    BamaNation Hall of Fame NationalTitles16's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    So I have a couple questions. These are not aimed directly at you tattooguy21, but you happened to give me a handy jumping off point. I would be interested in anyone's point of view on these.

    Aren't the people who are getting ACA now, typically considered people who didn't deserve/need health care by those who were arguing against the ACA? I seem to recall many people saying that it is something that should be a personal responsibility.

    If that is the case, and you believe that it would "screw over millions of Americans" isn't it really just bringing it back to the status quo of what it was beforehand?

    Considering all of the above, do you believe that the stance of those on the right has sufficiently changes such that health care is something that should be within the domain of the government, or is it more of a perception thing? Now that you have given the poor health care it is too politically costly to take it away now.
    I understand your point and it's valid, but you are pretending nothing has changed since ACA passed and that no "responsible" person was impacted by the ACA. My MIL, for instance, always carried insurance for a reasonable cost but the premiums sans subsidies have grown to the point she could no longer afford them without big brother's help. I'm amazed by this woman's frugality. There are many others in her position or a similar one. Screwing these people would be bad for everyone involved. I just wish our elected leaders on all sides would have tried to find common ground in the beginning before using tricks to pass a bad law.
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  5. #56
    BamaNation All-American tattooguy21's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Like I said, I'm ignorant too much of it, bit I'll respond to what I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    So I have a couple questions. These are not aimed directly at you tattooguy21, but you happened to give me a handy jumping off point. I would be interested in anyone's point of view on these.

    Aren't the people who are getting ACA now, typically considered people who didn't deserve/need health care by those who were arguing against the ACA? I seem to recall many people saying that it is something that should be a personal responsibility.

    If that is the case, and you believe that it would "screw over millions of Americans" isn't it really just bringing it back to the status quo of what it was beforehand? .
    The milk has been spilled. We can't act like it didn't happen. Taking away the ACA without something to replace it will have a negative impact on those currently utilizing the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    Considering all of the above, do you believe that the stance of those on the right has sufficiently changes such that health care is something that should be within the domain of the government, or is it more of a perception thing? Now that you have given the poor health care it is too politically costly to take it away now.
    I believe that in a perfect society, everyone gets healthcare. Then I wake up and realize that I could get shot for the color of my skin or decapitated fire my religion and realize ain't nothing perfect. As such, the healthcare plan CAN be made into a better product.

    The fix could start by removing state lines (companies currentlycan't sell in certain states because xyz). If you make it easier for them to sale everywhere, then a few companies didn't have a monopoly and prices decrease in favor of the consumer, and then more people join, and more insurers want in....and see where this is going?

    I believe that the gov't can work well with PRIVATE industry. Several states have removed the gov't from certain situations (jersey in the 80s-90s with their DOT, cities in Florida with certain utilities) and opened them up to private companies. Why? Because having well built infrastructure is a great idea, but the gov't sucks with all the red tape, bureaucracy, etc of implementing. Versus business xyz, that's bells to a contract, a timeline, a cost, it they're fired and sunshine replaces them. Yay capitalism

  6. #57
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooguy21 View Post
    3) benefits/plans not a good as those offered to business
    This may technically be true, by I think you'll find that plans being offered by businesses have been degrading since ACA adoption and converging toward looking like exchange plans. The primary cause? The Cadillac tax and other expenses being loaded up on businesses, which are the key mechanisms of the wealth transfer that is occurring in order to pay for all the goodies being handed out.
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  7. #58
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooguy21 View Post
    Regardless of ones feeling on the ACA, at this point, to completely repeal or to repeal and at a later date replace would screw over millions of Americans. Whatever is done would need to be immediate to prevent any gaps.
    I assume the so-called "political fallout" will be no more than the fallout that occurred after ACA adoption and implementation, which screwed over millions more Americans than it ended up "helping".
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  8. #59
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Bamaro's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    The problem has always been that there are some people who are too lazy, cheap or poor to get their own insurance and ready to take the chance that they wont need it. When bad tings happen to some of them, they wind up getting free treatment since they never repay while the rest of us wind up subsidizing their bills through paying higher costs for ours.

  9. #60
    BamaNation All-American tattooguy21's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    This may technically be true, by I think you'll find that plans being offered by businesses have been degrading since ACA adoption and converging toward looking like exchange plans. The primary cause? The Cadillac tax and other expenses being loaded up on businesses, which are the key mechanisms of the wealth transfer that is occurring in order to pay for all the goodies being handed out.
    Again, I can't speak intelligently. The wife's company had insurance prior, so they didn't have to play ACA games. She says they did compare in case it was cost/service effective, but saw that it was not, Shi they stayed with what they had.

  10. #61
    BamaNation All-American tattooguy21's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    I assume the so-called "political fallout" will be no more than the fallout that occurred after ACA adoption and implementation, which screwed over millions more Americans than it ended up "helping".
    I give a crap about political fallout (though that's likely what politicians are concerned with.)

    I'm speaking of those on a program which, if terminated, essentially terminates their insurance. If the program is repealed, the insurers have the loophole they need to discontinue service. So if you're an insurer, and federal subsidies you were receiving are gone cause the program is dead, are you gonna take the inevitable loss in profits to keep it going? No

  11. #62
    BamaNation All-American CharminTide's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamaro View Post
    The problem has always been that there are some people who are too lazy, cheap or poor to get their own insurance and ready to take the chance that they wont need it. When bad tings happen to some of them, they wind up getting free treatment since they never repay while the rest of us wind up subsidizing their bills through paying higher costs for ours.
    Conceptually, I like the German system. Buying into coverage essentially locks your rate so long as your coverage is continuous. Should your coverage ever lapse, you have to buy in again, which is guaranteed to be at a much higher rate than had you not lapsed (since the rate increases with age). It incentivizes the young to join the risk pool and lower costs across the board, and does so by appealing to personal responsibility rather than resorting to more draconian measures (like Switzerland, where if you don't have insurance, the government will garnish your wages to force you into a plan, possibly even imprison you). They also have both a private market and government run insurance (I.e. public option) that exist side by side quite well.

    ACA nearly had the same private/public setup until Leiberman killed it. And I prefer their version of a "mandate" over the ACA implementation.

  12. #63
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    I assume the so-called "political fallout" will be no more than the fallout that occurred after ACA adoption and implementation, which screwed over millions more Americans than it ended up "helping".
    bs.
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  13. #64
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooguy21 View Post
    The wife's company had insurance prior, so they didn't have to play ACA games. She says they did compare in case it was cost/service effective, but saw that it was not, Shi they stayed with what they had.
    They play whether they shove their employees out to the exchanges or not. The Cadillac Tax will require plan changes if the plan is deemed "too rich/nice" under the ACA. Many many businesses have been jacking up deductibles to avoid paying the Cadillac Tax.
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  14. #65
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: The policy and politics of Trumpism

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    bs.
    Reality says otherwise.
    The Concord Blue Devils, 17-Time World Champions: 2015, 2014 (99.65), 2012, 2010, 2009, 2007, 2003, 1999, 1997, 1996, 1994, 1986, 1982, 1980, 1979, 1977, & 1976. Enriching the lives of young people through a commitment to youth development and performance excellence.

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