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The policy and politics of Trumpism

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jthomas666

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NationalTitles17 said:
The vote would have to be simultaneous to prevent shenanigans.
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Not necessarily. impeach/remove Pence first, then impeach/remove Trump before confirming a new VP.

As a bonus, when Mitch McConnell claims that it's not right to delay the confirmation of a new VP, Pelosi gets to tell him that the next VP should be named by the next president (Pelosi).
 
twofbyc

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Maudiemae said:
Yet another angle
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...f74070bbdb9_story.html?utm_term=.9f1bda76b878
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Again, misleading commentary. From the beginning of the hour long video I saw (first five minutes) BHI went after Native Americans first - article doesn’t state that clearly.
When I say first, I mean the first people within 25-50 yards of BHI and confronting them were Native Americans; the discourse was not about the high school kids. When video started, you could hear BHI, and when they first appeared on video no one was even close to them. The first to approach them were Native American from what I saw, as the discourse progressed; I didnt see a white boy near them in the first five minutes of the video.
This is what I despise about journalists - they alter the narrative to suit their purposes, instead of watching the video and documenting the actions sequentially; and yes, it makes a huge difference, in almost any situation.


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NationalTitles17 said:
Trump chose Pence so we would have a Sophie's choice regarding impeachment.
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My understanding is Trump picked Pence after being tricked and manipulated into doing so by the convicted felon Paul Manaford. Why would Manaford's Russian handlers want Pence? In my opinion, it was done to encourage the evangelicals to stick with Trump.
 
92tide

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TIDE-HSV said:
Here are the Covington students at a basketball game in 2015. Remember that the school is 100% white, student body, faculty, everyone...

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from 2005

Kentucky diocese agrees to $120 million settlement

COVINGTON, Ky. - Marking the largest settlement yet in the Roman Catholic Church's sexual abuse crisis, the Covington Diocese said yesterday that it had agreed to pay up to $120 million to alleged victims of child molestation.

The amount, which must be approved by the Boone County Circuit Court, would eclipse a $100 million settlement reached by the Orange County, Calif., diocese last year involving 90 victims, and an $85 million settlement reached two years ago with 552 victims by the Boston Archdiocese, where the scandal erupted in 2002.
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jthomas666

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President Trump made 8,158 false or misleading claims in his first two years

Two years after taking the oath of office, President Trump has made 8,158 false or misleading claims, according to The Fact Checker’s database that analyzes, categorizes and tracks every suspect statement uttered by the president.

That includes an astonishing 6,000-plus such claims in the president’s second year.

Put another way: The president averaged nearly 5.9 false or misleading claims a day in his first year in office. But he hit nearly 16.5 a day in his second year, almost triple the pace.
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Encouraging to know that Trump improved in some areas, I guess...
 
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I disagree with the push to impeach Trump short of "smoking gun" evidence that he committed serious felonies. I think a successful impeachment - hell just a serious impeachment process - would validate the growing conspiracy right (Q Anon) types.
 
bobstod

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92tide said:
oh i don't doubt that at all. duplicity is apparently one of the core values of evangelicalism.
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I would respectfully like to reply to your post, 92. First off, as an English major and a stickler for proper nomenclature, there is no such word as evangicalism. The word is evangelism, and what it means in the Christian community is an obligation for believers to share their views on Christ's message with nonbelievers. They do that, as Christ asked them to, in the hope that others can find the peace, strength, patience, joy, understanding, gentleness, self-control, and love that comes from having a personal relationship with God. Done carefully, and only when the situation seems appropriate, such a sharing is no more than a recognition that you and the other person each have the power of God within you. Each person has the absolute right to choose his own spiritual path, and if I personally share my story of how I have benefited through my Christ experience, I always do so in a way as to make it clear that it was a personal decision for me, and their own right to accept or reject my words is granted without reservation.

I find it almost impossible to understand how any Christian can still support this president or his chaotic policies. Jesus lays out a pretty clear path for his followers: be humble, love your neighbor as yourself, take care of those less fortunate than you, be grateful (Gratitude and Praise are synonyms when it comes recognition of the blessings we receive each day), and most important of all, find a way to express love through your words and actions.

I don't find any evidence that DJT is aware of, or tries to adhere to any of those commands.

Nature is as divided as our national politics. There is order, and there is chaos in nature. I tend to think that order is the natural state, and chaos in the form of hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, wars, famine, etc. is the randomness. Our job as caring human beings is to resist the chaos, and repair it when we can't prevent it. Any reasonable government should at the very least reflect that core belief. This one doesn't.

If you would care to debate on this subject, I would invite you to begin by pointing out why you believe that duplicity is a core value of evangelism.

God bless, and have a great day.
 
92tide

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bobstod said:
I would respectfully like to reply to your post, 92. First off, as an English major and a stickler for proper nomenclature, there is no such word as evangicalism. The word is evangelism, and what it means in the Christian community is an obligation for believers to share their views on Christ's message with nonbelievers. They do that, as Christ asked them to, in the hope that others can find the peace, strength, patience, joy, understanding, gentleness, self-control, and love that comes from having a personal relationship with God. Done carefully, and only when the situation seems appropriate, such a sharing is no more than a recognition that you and the other person each have the power of God within you. Each person has the absolute right to choose his own spiritual path, and if I personally share my story of how I have benefited through my Christ experience, I always do so in a way as to make it clear that it was a personal decision for me, and their own right to accept or reject my words is granted without reservation.

I find it almost impossible to understand how any Christian can still support this president or his chaotic policies. Jesus lays out a pretty clear path for his followers: be humble, love your neighbor as yourself, take care of those less fortunate than you, be grateful (Gratitude and Praise are synonyms when it comes recognition of the blessings we receive each day), and most important of all, find a way to express love through your words and actions.

I don't find any evidence that DJT is aware of, or tries to adhere to any of those commands.

Nature is as divided as our national politics. There is order, and there is chaos in nature. I tend to think that order is the natural state, and chaos in the form of hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, wars, famine, etc. is the randomness. Our job as caring human beings is to resist the chaos, and repair it when we can't prevent it. Any reasonable government should at the very least reflect that core belief. This one doesn't.

If you would care to debate on this subject, I would invite you to begin by pointing out why you believe that duplicity is a core value of evangelism.

God bless, and have a great day.
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thanks for the catch on the mis-spelling/non-word. i got caught by auto-correct.

i am defining evangelism as what is being pushed by the christian right for the past 40+ years (and even further if you look at the actions in the 50-60s in response to the civil rights movement). pretending that they are pursuing policies that are in line with the teachings of christ and manifesting god's will on earth is very duplicitous.

eta: i was raised in a fundamental rural southern baptist church, so i do understand what you are talking about wrt to evangelism, and fully agree with your take on it.

maybe a better term for me to use would be evangelical christianity (which i freely conflate with fundamental christianity fwiw)

also, not meant as a dig or anything like that, but i was curious as to why autocorrect would throw in evangelicalism, so i looked it up. it does appear to be an actual term separate from evangelism link
Evangelicalism (/ˌiːvænˈdʒɛlɪkəlɪzəm, ˌɛvæn-, -ən/), evangelical Christianity, or evangelical Protestantism,[a] is a worldwide, transdenominational movement within Protestant Christianity which maintains the belief that the essence of the Gospel consists of the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ's atonement.[1][2][3] Evangelicals believe in the centrality of the conversion or "born again" experience in receiving salvation, in the authority of the Bible as God's revelation to humanity, and in spreading the Christian message. The movement has had a long presence in the Anglosphere before spreading further afield in the 19th, 20th and early 21st centuries.
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bobstod

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92tide said:
thanks for the catch on the mis-spelling/non-word. i got caught by auto-correct.

i am defining evangelism as what is being pushed by the christian right for the past 40+ years (and even further if you look at the actions in the 50-60s in response to the civil rights movement). pretending that they are pursuing policies that are in line with the teachings of christ and manifesting god's will on earth is very duplicitous.
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Oh. I see, and I certainly understand. I assume you grew up in Alabama, as I did, and have a hard time looking back on the White Citizen's Council and the KKK and trying to reconcile them with a Christian point of view. I was as bigoted then as my peers were, and I rejected Christianity on other grounds, not truly recognizing the duplicity. Of course I was pretty ignorant of what Christianity was, in terms of what Christ really taught; and I am far better educated now, at 78. I guess my objection at this point would be your identifying evangelists as the "Christian Right". I can understand how easy that would be, but it is a mistake. It is almost always a mistake to brand a large class of individuals with a simple description. I am dumbfounded to find individuals in my own church who would happily claim to be from the Christian Right. I guess I shouldn't be...I live in South Alabama after all. Thanks for your quick and clear response, and for its fairness and civility.
 
92tide

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bobstod said:
Oh. I see, and I certainly understand. I assume you grew up in Alabama, as I did, and have a hard time looking back on the White Citizen's Council and the KKK and trying to reconcile them with a Christian point of view. I was as bigoted then as my peers were, and I rejected Christianity on other grounds, not truly recognizing the duplicity. Of course I was pretty ignorant of what Christianity was, in terms of what Christ really taught; and I am far better educated now, at 78. I guess my objection at this point would be your identifying evangelists as the "Christian Right". I can understand how easy that would be, but it is a mistake. It is almost always a mistake to brand a large class of individuals with a simple description. I am dumbfounded to find individuals in my own church who would happily claim to be from the Christian Right. I guess I shouldn't be...I live in South Alabama after all. Thanks for your quick and clear response, and for its fairness and civility.
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thanks bobstod. you are correct that i am painting with too broad a brush as my continued pushback against christianity is against the nasty rightwing stuff (think falwell, graham jr., robert jefferies). during my coming of age in the southern baptist church (i was a reagan teen) i kept running into a lot of dissonance between the message of love and grace and the overt politicization of the christian right. i eventually just walked away from it.
 
TIDE-HSV

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bobstod said:
I would respectfully like to reply to your post, 92. First off, as an English major and a stickler for proper nomenclature, there is no such word as evangicalism. The word is evangelism, and what it means in the Christian community is an obligation for believers to share their views on Christ's message with nonbelievers. They do that, as Christ asked them to, in the hope that others can find the peace, strength, patience, joy, understanding, gentleness, self-control, and love that comes from having a personal relationship with God. Done carefully, and only when the situation seems appropriate, such a sharing is no more than a recognition that you and the other person each have the power of God within you. Each person has the absolute right to choose his own spiritual path, and if I personally share my story of how I have benefited through my Christ experience, I always do so in a way as to make it clear that it was a personal decision for me, and their own right to accept or reject my words is granted without reservation.

I find it almost impossible to understand how any Christian can still support this president or his chaotic policies. Jesus lays out a pretty clear path for his followers: be humble, love your neighbor as yourself, take care of those less fortunate than you, be grateful (Gratitude and Praise are synonyms when it comes recognition of the blessings we receive each day), and most important of all, find a way to express love through your words and actions.

I don't find any evidence that DJT is aware of, or tries to adhere to any of those commands.

Nature is as divided as our national politics. There is order, and there is chaos in nature. I tend to think that order is the natural state, and chaos in the form of hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, wars, famine, etc. is the randomness. Our job as caring human beings is to resist the chaos, and repair it when we can't prevent it. Any reasonable government should at the very least reflect that core belief. This one doesn't.

If you would care to debate on this subject, I would invite you to begin by pointing out why you believe that duplicity is a core value of evangelism.

God bless, and have a great day.
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My SIL is retired from the Billy Graham Campaign. She stays in touch with a very large number of evangelicals. She and my sister can't even discuss politics. She is firmly convinced Trump is doing "God's work," and simply glosses over his personal peccadilloes and inhumane policies...
 
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bobstod said:
I would respectfully like to reply to your post, 92. First off, as an English major and a stickler for proper nomenclature, there is no such word as evangicalism. The word is evangelism, and what it means in the Christian community is an obligation for believers to share their views on Christ's message with nonbelievers. They do that, as Christ asked them to, in the hope that others can find the peace, strength, patience, joy, understanding, gentleness, self-control, and love that comes from having a personal relationship with God. Done carefully, and only when the situation seems appropriate, such a sharing is no more than a recognition that you and the other person each have the power of God within you. Each person has the absolute right to choose his own spiritual path, and if I personally share my story of how I have benefited through my Christ experience, I always do so in a way as to make it clear that it was a personal decision for me, and their own right to accept or reject my words is granted without reservation.

I find it almost impossible to understand how any Christian can still support this president or his chaotic policies. Jesus lays out a pretty clear path for his followers: be humble, love your neighbor as yourself, take care of those less fortunate than you, be grateful (Gratitude and Praise are synonyms when it comes recognition of the blessings we receive each day), and most important of all, find a way to express love through your words and actions.

I don't find any evidence that DJT is aware of, or tries to adhere to any of those commands.

Nature is as divided as our national politics. There is order, and there is chaos in nature. I tend to think that order is the natural state, and chaos in the form of hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, wars, famine, etc. is the randomness. Our job as caring human beings is to resist the chaos, and repair it when we can't prevent it. Any reasonable government should at the very least reflect that core belief. This one doesn't.

If you would care to debate on this subject, I would invite you to begin by pointing out why you believe that duplicity is a core value of evangelism.

God bless, and have a great day.
Click to expand...
There is nothing to disagree with in your post, while at the same time, my impression is you are defining evangelical as we have traditionally known it, while so many claiming to be evangelicals nowadays follow a corrupted version of the religion that has been twisted to justify supporting a monster like Trump.

Trump is now being compared to the Biblical King Cyrus by some of his evangelical supporters. I had read about that happening, but actually had one supporter tell me that in person this morning.

I think it's interesting to note black evangelicals are not supporting Trump in the same blind manner so many white evangelicals are, and seem to generally have a better understanding of the teaching of the Bible.
 
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