The policy and politics of Trumpism

seebell said:

Reading comprehension DBF. Are we better off as a country that we were after the worldwide crash of 2008? Yes we are by any objective standard.

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If you think the additional $6.5T in debt added by the O administration, the continued outflow of jobs to Mexico & China, the disintegration of our military and significantly reduced race relations are improvements, then cudos to you.

Don't get me wrong, Bush sucked too. In fact, I did not vote for him either time.

As for the housing bubble - that was a failed democratic policy compliments of Barney Frank and friends.

https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/13/h...ibutors_0216_peter_wallison_edward_pinto.html

You can't guarantee loans via the taxpayers for people who are totally unqualified to pay for it. Not everyone "deserves" a house, just like not everyone "deserves" a college degree. T

CharminTide said:

You can go back to right after the election and look, if you don't believe this. But I posted that I was cautiously optimistic about Trump. We had just elected a mystery box and had no idea what it would bring.

I certainly don't want to see him crash and burn or the country to suffer. But I can't see a path for success based on what he's done so far. He wrote an unconstitutional Muslim ban, then publically attacked the court system. He asked for personal names of all civil servants who supported global warming. He attacks the free press and peddles lies derived from conspiracy theorists. He skips intelligence briefings so he can watch Fox News for hours each day. His cabinet nominees have been a mixture of entirely unqualified, pulled directly from Goldmann Sachs, and folks unusually close to the foreign power known to have influenced our elections. He has regular explosions on Twitter based on a false reality. Not only is he wrong, he doesn't care about finding the truth.

So as I said, I gave him a chance. But I don't see a path of success through this. I didn't support Bush's policies, but I never had the reaction to him as to Trump. He's a different creature entirely.

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Charmin - One day I hope you wake up and realize the threat muslims truly are. Your lifestyle in and of itself is grounds for cutting your head off or throwing you off a building in a majority ruled, sharia law-based country.

DBF, the question was "2008 better than today?" Period.

seebell said:

DBF, the question was "2008 better than today?" Period.

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Yes we were better off in 2008 than today. More debt, immigration issues, etc. are weighing us down.

Sorry, you were correct, I misread the post.

CharminTide said:

And you actually think we're teetering on the brink of being a country ruled by Sharia law?

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Nope, not if we stop and reverse the flow of them into the US. However, I think if we continue to allow the inflow of said people into this country we'll see an uptick in terrorist attacks and crime (see Sweden, Germany & France as examples), we'll see more Orlando style "events" and we'll continue to see less assimilation and more demands for Sharia style courts as a group in Dallas asked for. The laws of the US do not supersede Sharia in their eyes.

No question that we are better of today than in 2008. Then we were on the brink of a worldwide economic failure not seen since the 30s. Unfortunately, today we are still in poor condition (not as bad) because the only thing keeping us going is massive deficit spending. Tic...Tic...Tic

seebell said:

Reading comprehension DBF. Are we better off as a country that we were after the worldwide crash of 2008? Yes we are by any objective standard.

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Yep, I blew that one. You are correct. My "dyslexia" kicked in apparently.

crimsonaudio said:

You believe this, you might be right - but that doesn't make it fact.

And it certainly doesn't mean we can't hope for the best possible outcome instead of hoping for failure.


I disagree - I don't think anyone wants to 'tear it down', as you imply. And without that bit, the rest of what you said is every election.

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i think that trump has given us plenty of evidence over the past 40 years that he is not remotely capable of the task at hand, regardless of what we hope for. the longer he stays in office, the worse the outcome will be. despite trump's protestations, his constant failures at being able to do his job without near daily screw-ups are his fault. i don't really see him suddenly becoming a competent leader and manager.

yes, there is some chance that trump may suddenly become able to function at a most basic level in his job. you can hope that happens if that works for you. but not expecting that to happen does not mean i am somehow hoping for the country to fail as you imply.

and there were folks here talking about tearing everything down (wrt the federal government) during the past 8 years. that sentiment is a staple on rw conspiracy sites and was a big part of what drove folks to support trump, he was going to "shake things up" and "drain the swamp".

Bamaro said:

No question that we are better of today than in 2008. Then we were on the brink of a worldwide economic failure not seen since the 30s. Unfortunately, today we are still in poor condition (not as bad) because the only thing keeping us going is massive deficit spending. Tic...Tic...Tic

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Could not have said it better. Were were worse off in 2008 because we were on the precipice of total collapse of the international monetary system. QE has bought us time. No one of import has learned a thing, though. I'm not sure the system can survive the next big hit or exactly when it's coming. But before we go there, there are still many people suffering from economic stagnation.

Displaced Bama Fan said:

Yep, I blew that one. You are correct. My "dyslexia" kicked in apparently.

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I know it's hard to believe but you had me confused for a while!

CharminTide said:

Sorry, I simply don't have the same fear of Islam that you do. I meet far too many genuine and kind Muslims in day to day life to assume that jihadism is the default state. Just like I've met far too many genuine and kind Christians to presume the KKK is representative of that faith, and I've met too many normal Trump voters to assume every one is a white nationalist.

A DHS memo that Trump tried to suppress concluded that immigrants aren't radicalized when they enter the US. They become radicalized decades later. Which means that "extreme vetting" at the border is unlikely to be an effective deterrent to Orlando-style shootings, and we should instead refocus our efforts on immigrant outreach programs.

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I completely agree. It's amazing how none of us want to be judged based on what the worst people with similar qualities as us (race, religion, etc;...) do but we can much more easily paint others not like us in one or more ways with that same brush we reject rightly out of hand. Say "All white people are racist killers who hang blacks from trees" and you'll be rightly rejected by most. Say "All cops are racist killers who kill innocent black kids in the street" and the same will happen. I'm willing to bet just based on my experiences with others that a higher percentage would accept that Muslims are by and large dangerous killers.
Knowing the Muslims I know and others I have been acquainted with over the years I find that to be a profoundly ignorant point of view. Sites like Breitbart are great at drumming up fear with numbers and reporting that is usually sketchy at best, but they give you no experiences with real people to judge for yourself. Furthermore, that ignorance and the hate/intolerance that spews from it may contribute to the radicalization mentioned above.
They say familiarity breeds contempt. Not always so. Sometimes it leads to a better understanding if you let it.

crimsonaudio said:

I disagree - I don't think anyone wants to 'tear it down', as you imply. And without that bit, the rest of what you said is every election.

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I am not sure how you think placing people who have at various points in their career, have advocated for the elimination of the departments they are now running, isn't a direct attempt at trying to 'tear it down'. Those that haven't explicitly done so, have a history of fighting the departments they want to lead every step of the way.

Betsy Devos believes in private and charter non-secular schools to be the salvation of the American school system. Coincidentally, Thomas Massie put forth a bill to eliminate the department of education on the same day of Devos' confirmation.

Rick Perry has in the past wanted to get rid of the Department of Energy.

Ben Carson doesn't believe in safety net programs, but is tapped to lead HUD.

Scott Pruitt, who doesn't believe in climate change, is about to take over an EPA with a planned 25% budget cut in newest budget proposal from Trump.

This last bit is my interpretation of the Republicans position for the last 30 years.

"Government is wasteful, causing you harm and does nothing for you. Elect me to this governmental position that I obviously hate so much, and I will do my best to ensure that the remaining parts that are working are systematically dismantled or underfunded until what I said previously is true. Well except for things like social security, Medicare, Medicaid, the military industrial complex, and any pork that I can bring home to ensure I get reelected. Oh yeah, I will also protect the unborn babies. Once they are out of the womb, I will do everything I can to ensure they have a miserable life because the poor sûck."

CharminTide said:

NYT: Comey Asks Justice Dept. to Reject Trump’s Wiretapping Claim

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Interesting: "...because it falsely insinuates that the F.B.I. broke the law, the officials said."

He doesn't seem to be disputing the wiretapping claim.

It is National Review, but at least it's devoid of the histrionics that are currently plaguing the left:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/445504/obama-camp-disingenuous-denials-fisa-surveillance-trump

President Trump’s early Saturday morning tweeting has exploded to the forefront an uncovered scandal I’ve been talking about since early January (including in this weekend’s column): The fact that the Obama Justice Department and the FBI investigated associates of Donald Trump, and likely Trump himself, in the heat of the presidential campaign.

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...it cannot be glossed over that, at the very time it appears the Obama Justice Department was seeking to surveil Trump and/or his associates on the pretext that they were Russian agents, the Obama Justice Department was also actively undermining and ultimately closing without charges the criminal investigation of Hillary Clinton despite significant evidence of felony misconduct that threatened national security.

This appears to be extraordinary, politically motivated abuse of presidential power.

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