The policy and politics of Trumpism

CharminTide · Jan 11, 2019

UAH said:
I have been hearing consistently from historians that the courts would be very differential to a President in the exercise of his broad emergency powers. there is very little to constrain this man.... This petty ignorant man brought to office by an accident of fate might prove to be the end of this democratic experiment.

Help us, Robert Mueller. You're our only hope.

twofbyc · Jan 11, 2019

UAH said:
I have been hearing consistently from historians that the courts would be very differential to a President in the exercise of his broad emergency powers. there is very little to constrain this man.

It occurs to me that if he were to succeed in his emergency declaration it would only whet his appetite for greater power as outlined in your article. The chilling thought is that many in his base would be ignorant enough to support Trump as dictator over an elected candidate.

It seemed clear to me, leading up to the election, that there was a strong potential that the country was making a decision similar to the one made in Germany in 1933. This petty ignorant man brought to office by an accident of fate might prove to be the end of this democratic experiment.

If the SCOTUS reigned Truman in for a much more reasonable declaration (IMO), I don’t see any way they’d give Trump a pass on this. It’s not an emergency by any stretch of the imagination, and there is no basis for concluding that it is.
If he does and they do, it will just hasten my departure plans. I couldn’t live in a country that turned so far away from any semblance of democracy, completing the annihilation of the balance of power (which the Senate has already begun) our country was founded on and relies on to even exist as a free country.

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twofbyc · Jan 11, 2019

CharminTide said:
Help us, Robert Mueller. You're our only hope.

I’m hoping Mueller has enough to at least make him resign; I don’t think he gives a rat’s fart about Junior, but he doesn’t want his dream date going to prison.

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UAH · Jan 11, 2019

twofbyc said:
If the SCOTUS reigned Truman in for a much more reasonable declaration (IMO), I don’t see any way they’d give Trump a pass on this. It’s not an emergency by any stretch of the imagination, and there is no basis for concluding that it is.
If he does and they do, it will just hasten my departure plans. I couldn’t live in a country that turned so far away from any semblance of democracy, completing the annihilation of the balance of power (which the Senate has already begun) our country was founded on and relies on to even exist as a free country.

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I see your point regarding Truman but opinions are all over the place on this. We can only hope that this man is somehow constrained. Congress as a whole have steadily given up their Constitutional responsibilities and created this imperial Presidency that we have today.

MattinBama · Jan 11, 2019

UAH said:
It seemed clear to me, leading up to the election, that there was a strong potential that the country was making a decision similar to the one made in Germany in 1933. This petty ignorant man brought to office by an accident of fate might prove to be the end of this democratic experiment.

92tide · Jan 11, 2019

MattinBama said:

uafanataum · Jan 11, 2019

TIDE-HSV said:
Emergency powers...

Atlantic

Nice article but scary. It still clearly says congress can get rid of these powers if they grow some balls.

selmaborntidefan · Jan 11, 2019

twofbyc said:
Maybe it’s just me - but if he declares a state of emergency for a manufactured (by him) non- emergency and is so deemed by the court, that should be grounds for impeachment.

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What nobody on the right seems to be thinking about is.....what's to prevent the next left-wing President from doing the same with Climate Change? Whatever one's views on that or the proper role of government, the fact is that that can be used just as easily as McConnell used Harry Reid's "let's change the rules" policy.

(Some of you may remember back when Bush Jr toyed with the idea of bypassing the filibuster. It was Republicans who warned him that he'd better be prepared to face the consequences of President Hillary Clinton doing the same - and it stopped. Once upon a time, that tension is why the nation rarely ran off into fool's ventures, but the collapse of any semblance of centrism within 95% of either party has ensured it doesn't work anymore).

Jon · Jan 11, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
What nobody on the right seems to be thinking about is.....what's to prevent the next left-wing President from doing the same with Climate Change? Whatever one's views on that or the proper role of government, the fact is that that can be used just as easily as McConnell used Harry Reid's "let's change the rules" policy.

(Some of you may remember back when Bush Jr toyed with the idea of bypassing the filibuster. It was Republicans who warned him that he'd better be prepared to face the consequences of President Hillary Clinton doing the same - and it stopped. Once upon a time, that tension is why the nation rarely ran off into fool's ventures, but the collapse of any semblance of centrism within 95% of either party has ensured it doesn't work anymore).

Wall Street Journal's OpEd today is saying much the same.

UAH · Jan 11, 2019

selmaborntidefan said:
What nobody on the right seems to be thinking about is.....what's to prevent the next left-wing President from doing the same with Climate Change? Whatever one's views on that or the proper role of government, the fact is that that can be used just as easily as McConnell used Harry Reid's "let's change the rules" policy.

(Some of you may remember back when Bush Jr toyed with the idea of bypassing the filibuster. It was Republicans who warned him that he'd better be prepared to face the consequences of President Hillary Clinton doing the same - and it stopped. Once upon a time, that tension is why the nation rarely ran off into fool's ventures, but the collapse of any semblance of centrism within 95% of either party has ensured it doesn't work anymore).

There are certainly centrist on each side which mirrors a large portion of Americans who lie in the middle ground. It is difficult to see a left that has moved at all particularly looking at FDR and LBJ in terms of legislative accomplishments. An admittedly superficial look would say that with the Clinton's we began a rightward drift that was picked up and weaponized by Dick Cheney to an entirely new virulent strain of right wing extremism that we see in evidence today. You are either for us or our bitter enemy that forces people to move far right to make any compromise at all. Case in point the approach Trump is taking to demand his border wall!

bobstod · Jan 11, 2019

TIDE-HSV said:
Emergency powers..

Atlantic

OMG that is scary. Not that I haven't been thinking for months how apparent it is that Trump would prefer an America where he is the only voice and power, I had no idea there were so many "emergency powers" already on the books that have not been reviewed or rescinded by congress as required by law. Could we be seeing the downfall of the republic we have known and fought for all our lives?

Chukker Veteran · Jan 11, 2019

I saw an interview with Mo Brooks (who represents the mostly highly educated area of the state and consistently humiliates the people he represents) where Mo was advocating the emergency status and was asked what's to keep the Dems from declaring a national emergency over climate change and he stammered like the fool he is.

Why stop with climate change? Dems could argue gun control, wealth inequality, health care and many other issues are also national emergencies.

twofbyc · Jan 11, 2019

Chukker Veteran said:
I saw an interview with Mo Brooks (who represents the mostly highly educated area of the state and consistently humiliates the people he represents) where Mo was advocating the emergency status and was asked what's to keep the Dems from declaring a national emergency over climate change and he stammered like the fool he is.

Why stop with climate change? Dems could argue gun control, wealth inequality, health care and many other issues are also national emergencies.

Just like Harry Reid was warned not to kill the filibuster for judicial appointments, Trump is being advised by cooler heads not to do this.
Just like Reid, he’ll probably do it anyway.
Only problem is this doesn’t “automatically” reopen the government, and there’s a train of thought Trump may wait until the courts decide before he reopens it.
If courts rule against him and he still hasn’t reopened the government, what then?
Notice I’m leaving McConnell out of this discussion; he’s already admitted by his inaction he’s a political eunuch. He will only do what Trump tells him to do.

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TIDE-HSV · Jan 11, 2019

uafanataum said:
Nice article but scary. It still clearly says congress can get rid of these powers if they grow some balls.

Well, now, could they? Remember these myriad laws were all passed by Congress and signed by a president. The same would be true with statutes repealing the same. What president seeking to abuse these laws would sign the repeal into law? With a veto, an override would be necessary. With a "sheeple" Senate, which side depending on the prez in power, when would that happen?

bamacpa · Jan 11, 2019

AUDub said:
You'll take your 16 hour drive and like it!

I feel relieved to have made it thru security

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Crimson1967 · Jan 11, 2019

https://amp.businessinsider.com/gofundme-refunding-donations-build-the-wall-fundraiser-2019-1

The Gofundme for the wall is returning the donations. But they want you to redirect your money to a non-profit that is going to build it.

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uafanataum · Jan 11, 2019

TIDE-HSV said:
Well, now, could they? Remember these myriad laws were all passed by Congress and signed by a president. The same would be true with statutes repealing the same. What president seeking to abuse these laws would sign the repeal into law? With a veto, an override would be necessary. With a "sheeple" Senate, which side depending on the prez in power, when would that happen?

I was interpreting the stuff about the law passed in 1976 to say they could end the declaration of national emergency, and therefore end the presidents national emergency powers. It seems that congress has that power and has just never used it. This may be the president that forces congress to step up but I have little faith as long as McConell is the Senate leader.

TIDE-HSV · Jan 11, 2019

uafanataum said:
Nice article but scary. It still clearly says congress can get rid of these powers if they grow some balls.

Nope...

[qutoe]he Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. This means that for Congress to rescind a declared emergency, not only must they pass the joint resolution, but the President must sign the legislation. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress. [/quote]

uafanataum · Jan 11, 2019

TIDE-HSV said:
Nope...

[qutoe]he Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. This means that for Congress to rescind a declared emergency, not only must they pass the joint resolution, but the President must sign the legislation. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress.

[/QUOTE]

Why, that's one of the dumbest laws I ever read. It's like America set itself up for failure if we ever got a narcissist for president.
ETA. It's literally probably worse than when Congress basically let presidents declare war without calling it war so they do not have to get congressional approval. (And I thought that was one of the worst laws until tonight)

uafanataum · Jan 11, 2019

TIDE-HSV said:
Nope...

[qutoe]he Act authorized the President to activate emergency provisions of law via an emergency declaration on the conditions that the President specifies the provisions so activated and notifies Congress. An activation would expire if the President expressly terminated the emergency, or did not renew the emergency annually, or if each house of Congress passed a resolution terminating the emergency. After presidents objected to this "Congressional termination" provision on separation of powers grounds, it was replaced in 1985 with termination by an enacted joint resolution. This means that for Congress to rescind a declared emergency, not only must they pass the joint resolution, but the President must sign the legislation. The Act also requires the President and executive agencies to maintain records of all orders and regulations that proceed from use of emergency authority, and to regularly report the cost incurred to Congress.

[/QUOTE]

Read the second to the last paragraph in the article. A willing congress could significantly reduce the emergency powers of the president. Ofcourse, one chamber of congress is run by McConell.

The policy and politics of Trumpism

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