The policy and politics of Trumpism

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92tide

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CharminTide

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Does this belong here? The other thread? Campaign finance laws.
2 Russians arrested for campaign finance laws.
Both clients of Rudy, both helped in Ukraine investigation of Biden, both donated to Trump campaign, and then later went to a function with him (May 2018)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-fo...88?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/x61omKGG7B


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Case is from the Manhattan DA. Arrested last night, appearing in court today. One has to wonder if Barr was aware.

Edit: I'm guessing he was.

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1182288328818925568

 
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Go Bama

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Two business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani have been arrested and are in custody
The two men, who helped Giuliani investigate former vice president Joe Biden, were charged with campaign finance violations, according to a person familiar with the charges. Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman have been under investigation by the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Manhattan. This is a developing story. It will be updated.

This was the whole article from the WaPo so I didn’t post a link.
 

CharminTide

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This post/summary is entirely stolen from reddit (link):

Link to the indictment. Among various campaign finance charges, here is the bombshell:
At and around the same time PARNAS and FRUMAN committed to raising those funds for Congressman-1 PARNAS met ith Congressman-1 and sought his assistance in causing the U.S. government to remove or recall the then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. PARNAS's efforts to remove the ambassador were conducted, at least in part, at the request of one or more Ukrainian government officials.
One of these "officials" is almost certain to be Yuriy Lutsenko. According to NPR, Parnas was born in Ukraine, is one of Rudy's "fixers", and was directly involved in pressuring both Ukrainian prosecutors involved in the conspiracy to rat.... Biden:
"I arranged the Shokin call with the mayor," Parnas tells NPR, referring to Giuliani by his title from when he was mayor of New York City.

There also were meetings in late January in New York and mid-February in Warsaw with Yuriy Lutsenko.

"I was present but I'm not going to comment on what was discussed in those meetings," says Parnas.
This means SDNY has just arrested the bagman in the original quid pro quo with Yuriy Lutsenko to exchange Maria Yovanovitch's termination for investigations into Biden and 2016.

You might remember Maria Yovanovitch as the woman whom Trump said "was going to go through some things" in his July call with Zelenskyy. Her firing by Donald Trump was the "quid" in the original quid pro quo conspiracy that Giuliani arranged in March 2019 with Ukraine's top prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko. Here is the run down:

- In March of 2019, Yovanovitch gives a speech blasting the failure of Ukraine's anticorruption prosecutors, and advocated for the removal of Lutsenko.

- Two weeks later, Lutsenko fabricated dirt on Yovanovitch and laundered it through a conspiracy theorist/pretend journalist at the Hill named John Solomon.

- At the same time Giuliani forges a deal with Lutsenko: we will get Yovanovitch terminated (a firing Donald Trump personally ordered), and in exchange Lutsenko fabricates the investigations Giuliani requests to help Trump politically (again, laundered through conspiracy theorist Solomon).

- In April, The deal falls apart when Zelenskyy wins a landslide election on an anti-corruption platform and fires Lutsenko.

- In May, Giuliani blasts the Lutsenko firing, praising him as "a much more honest guy" than his predecessor Victor Shokin, who hilariously is the guy Biden helped get fired. Giuliani travels to Ukraine for the expressed purpose of preserving the quid pro quo with Lutsenko's successor:
“We’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do...Somebody could say it’s improper. And this isn’t foreign policy — I’m asking them to do an investigation that they’re doing already and that other people are telling them to stop. And I’m going to give them reasons why they shouldn’t stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government.”
- But it doesn't work, and in July they decide that Trump himself needs to pressure Zelensky directly. In the July phone call, Trump personally admonishes Zelenskyy for screwing up the Lutsenko deal:
In a White House transcript of a July 25 phone call, President Trump seemed to admonish the new Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, for firing Lutsenko: “I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything.”
The rest is history. Zelenskyy asks about military aid, Trump says "I would like you do us a favor, though", and then directly asks Zelenskyy for the same investigations into Biden and the Black Ledger that they had originally extracted from Lutsenko in exchange for Yovanovitch's termination. Lutsenko himself, now with no hope of getting his job back, readily admits the allegations of wrong doing by Hunter Biden were fabrications.

Now SDNY has arrested two men who appear to have done the legwork coordinating with Lutsenko.
 

Jon

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This post/summary is entirely stolen from reddit (link):

Link to the indictment. Among various campaign finance charges, here is the bombshell:

One of these "officials" is almost certain to be Yuriy Lutsenko. According to NPR, Parnas was born in Ukraine, is one of Rudy's "fixers", and was directly involved in pressuring both Ukrainian prosecutors involved in the conspiracy to rat.... Biden:


This means SDNY has just arrested the bagman in the original quid pro quo with Yuriy Lutsenko to exchange Maria Yovanovitch's termination for investigations into Biden and 2016.

You might remember Maria Yovanovitch as the woman whom Trump said "was going to go through some things" in his July call with Zelenskyy. Her firing by Donald Trump was the "quid" in the original quid pro quo conspiracy that Giuliani arranged in March 2019 with Ukraine's top prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko. Here is the run down:

- In March of 2019, Yovanovitch gives a speech blasting the failure of Ukraine's anticorruption prosecutors, and advocated for the removal of Lutsenko.

- Two weeks later, Lutsenko fabricated dirt on Yovanovitch and laundered it through a conspiracy theorist/pretend journalist at the Hill named John Solomon.

- At the same time Giuliani forges a deal with Lutsenko: we will get Yovanovitch terminated (a firing Donald Trump personally ordered), and in exchange Lutsenko fabricates the investigations Giuliani requests to help Trump politically (again, laundered through conspiracy theorist Solomon).

- In April, The deal falls apart when Zelenskyy wins a landslide election on an anti-corruption platform and fires Lutsenko.

- In May, Giuliani blasts the Lutsenko firing, praising him as "a much more honest guy" than his predecessor Victor Shokin, who hilariously is the guy Biden helped get fired. Giuliani travels to Ukraine for the expressed purpose of preserving the quid pro quo with Lutsenko's successor:

- But it doesn't work, and in July they decide that Trump himself needs to pressure Zelensky directly. In the July phone call, Trump personally admonishes Zelenskyy for screwing up the Lutsenko deal:

The rest is history. Zelenskyy asks about military aid, Trump says "I would like you do us a favor, though", and then directly asks Zelenskyy for the same investigations into Biden and the Black Ledger that they had originally extracted from Lutsenko in exchange for Yovanovitch's termination. Lutsenko himself, now with no hope of getting his job back, readily admits the allegations of wrong doing by Hunter Biden were fabrications.

Now SDNY has arrested two men who appear to have done the legwork coordinating with Lutsenko.

If you've read the indictment (as I have :) ) you will know that there are multiple unnamed people in it.

Starting to get clarity on a bit

Congressman - 1 for instance appears to be Pete Sessions

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10/10/pete-sessions-congressman-1-guliani-associates-indictment/

now I want to know who Foreign National 1 is
 

Jon

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in case any of you are wondering if all that cash bought access....

Here is Parnas "Hard at work" with Pete Sessions aka Congressman - 1




and someone else he was able to meet with

 

Jon

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Looks like Congressman #2 is non other than Kevin "I think Putin pays Trump and Rorbacher" McCarthy

they say boats start to sink slow then finally go fast. Feels like we are hitting that inflection point to me
 

TIDE-HSV

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I would have put this in the joke thread, but it's not funny. The American people need to be asking what's going on in his brain. Yesterday, he couldn't come up with "Ukraine" at first...

Trump, figuring it out.jpg
 

MobtownK

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What I really don't understand... Those who are more traditional conservatives - low taxes, small government, fiscal responsibility, strong military. What I would call classical conservative. (George Will being one) I tend this way, but am socially liberal.

So the classical conservatives.... how on earth are they justifying him asking Ukraine and China to investigate Biden as ok? Its illegal to ask for foreign assistance in destroying a political opponent.
If Biden conducted illegal activity, he should go to jail. But at the same time, if Trunp used his influence in government to gain $ for him or his kids (I believe he is, and evidence is coming out, but besides the point) then he should go to jail. Our laws are our laws. Some are good, some bad, but the white crime ones are a different level.
We have foreign donations (that can be an ignorance plea, even with the pics). That is also illegal. The ALGOP took $600+.
Are there some Democrats doing it, probably, they should also go to jail. You don't get a pass because of the letter beside your name. If he gets away with all of this, running the White House like a mob boss, then every president going forward will have too much power. (They already do)

But if the classical conservatives also side with Trump, because party loyalty, then it will put the Republican party back decades. They are stepping on the constitution and the rule of law. Nixon will look like a saint after this (he did open trade with China). He was impeached for much less. I grew up conservative, because of a strict adherence to the constitution. With the current GOP leadership, they can't say they're Constitutionalists. They can't claim small government. They can't say they're strong on the military (bc they blindside the Pentagon and are now isolationists). All they have left is social issues. And for many of us under 45 (generation x and younger) - we are more socially liberal. I dont care how you dress, worship, what color you are, or who you marry, and most of the people my age that vote Republican don't either.

The old guard of the GOP is pushing people into either being moderate, or liberal. Because of one deranged man. Most of us value the country over party. And have or will abandon ship. And they deserve it.


Sorry for the long rant, I've been sick on the couch for days, and yall are the closest I've had to adult conversation. Just wanted to step back from the noise and news and offer my thoughts on the long term ramifications of all this.


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CharminTide

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So the classical conservatives.... how on earth are they justifying him asking Ukraine and China to investigate Biden as ok?
From my limited circle, they don't actually try to justify the action, but they do justify their continued support of Trump/Republicans by claiming that the Democrats are worse and that no matter how bad he is, it's better than the alternative. Trump could invade Canada and he'd be more restrained than the warhawk Dems. He could ride this trade war straight into a recession and it will be because the Dems control the House purse-strings. He could execute Pelosi during the SOTU and it will just be him punching back after being unfairly targeted.

They have an irrational fear of "the other" that cannot be rationalized away. It's a sickness, reinforced by certain news/opinion outlets and the curated groupthink of their social media. You can watch them start to struggle with the cognitive dissonance of "it was bad, but it's not impeachable" or "the House didn't follow some protocol minutiae so the entire inquiry is invalid." But just wait -- after a few more therapy sessions with Rush and Tucker, they'll be right as rain.
 

92tide

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From my limited circle, they don't actually try to justify the action, but they do justify their continued support of Trump/Republicans by claiming that the Democrats are worse and that no matter how bad he is, it's better than the alternative. Trump could invade Canada and he'd be more restrained than the warhawk Dems. He could ride this trade war straight into a recession and it will be because the Dems control the House purse-strings. He could execute Pelosi during the SOTU and it will just be him punching back after being unfairly targeted.

They have an irrational fear of "the other" that cannot be rationalized away. It's a sickness, reinforced by certain news/opinion outlets and the curated groupthink of their social media. You can watch them start to struggle with the cognitive dissonance of "it was bad, but it's not impeachable" or "the House didn't follow some protocol minutiae so the entire inquiry is invalid." But just wait -- after a few more therapy sessions with Rush and Tucker, they'll be right as rain.
ladies and gentlemen, the party of personal responsibility
 

MobtownK

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No matter the hindsight thoughts on Iraq, Bush had congressional approval for funds.
We are now at a point of going to the Saudis (who aren't our friends) to defend oil fields against Iran. Wouldn't a war declaration or approval of funds be necessary to engage in conflict?
So we assist in attack on allies, while literally going to war for oil for a quasi-enemy.
The whole thing is insane.

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NationalTitles18

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No matter the hindsight thoughts on Iraq, Bush had congressional approval for funds.
We are now at a point of going to the Saudis (who aren't our friends) to defend oil fields against Iran. Wouldn't a war declaration or approval of funds be necessary to engage in conflict?
So we assist in attack on allies, while literally going to war for oil for a quasi-enemy.
The whole thing is insane.

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That's a bingo!
 
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