The policy and politics of Trumpism

NationalTitles17 said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/trump-immigrants-infest/563159/



Just in the past week he has used terminology that includes "separate but equal" (discussing Space Force), "infest" (immigrants), and goodness knows what I've missed. This language isn't new, but it's worth pointing out.

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it was only a few weeks ago he was calling them animals.

the sick part is the support that he continues to get while doing this.

NationalTitles17 said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/06/trump-immigrants-infest/563159/



Just in the past week he has used terminology that includes "separate but equal" (discussing Space Force), "infest" (immigrants), and goodness knows what I've missed. This language isn't new, but it's worth pointing out.

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Making Space Force a branch is beyond stupid and breaks international law between the 5 nuclear powers. But what else is new. I was okay with a slight scale back to NATO but giving the whole world the finger just to say that he “accomplished” something is just plain stupid.

NationalTitles17 said:

Is it just me or has the last week or so seemed like a tornado of crazy within an already dizzying storm? There is so much going on it's difficult to stay on top of it all and it makes me wonder just what we are missing. Is it simply a distraction because of Cohen and other related topics or is there still something else?

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Paul Manafort was sent to jail, Cohen is publicly saying through friends both that he thinks Trump should pay for his defense and that he is considering flipping which is a fairly transparent attempt to tell Trump he can be bought for the right price, we are getting crushed in a Trade war and the Dow is down and the IG report that they thought would exonerate them showed yet again that the FBI only helped Trump get elected. I'm sure there is more

TIDE-HSV said:

It doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings when the guy at the top is basing his decisions and actions on incomplete information:

Snopes on Trump/smuggled shoes

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This morning I heard his comments expressing his thanks to Canada for their support of the US in both World Wars. Apparently both he and his speech writer have so little knowledge of historical facts to know that the Canadian Army was fighting and dying in both wars before the US was even aroused to focus on either conflict.

Obviously both Trump and his staff represent "Ugly Americans" in the worst sense of the phrase!

UAH said:

This morning I heard his comments expressing his thanks to Canada for their support of the US in both World Wars. Apparently both he and his speech writer have so little knowledge of historical facts to know that the Canadian Army was fighting and dying in both wars before the US was even aroused to focus on either conflict.

Obviously both Trump and his staff represent "Ugly Americans" in the worst sense of the phrase!

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This man has a whole government apparatus from which to get information and relies on Breitbart and similar outlets. He has a vast wealth of information and historical knowledge just a simple request away from reaching him yet seems to make no use of it. Never mind that he never learned anything about any of it in his previous 72 years - he can't be bothered with learning now before opening his mouth and proving himself a fool.

I think Booman's reference to Walter Kurtz from "Apocalypse Now" is more than spot on...

“Well, you see Willard, in this war, things get confused out there: power, ideals, the old morality, practical military necessity. But out there with these natives, it must be a temptation to be god, because there’s a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil, and good does not always triumph. Sometimes, the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have one. Walter Kurtz has reached his, and very obviously, he has gone insane…He’s out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct. And he is still in the field commanding troops.”

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This cannot continue. And it won’t. Donald Trump, very obviously, has gone insane. He’s out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct. And he is still in the field commanding troops. His dealings with North Korea and Russia are no more sane or less damaging that his dealings with asylum seekers and border crossers and their children.

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http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2018/6/20/95750/2246

CharminTide said:

I agree in principle, but will also caution that there were Germans who used the same argument to soften the Party's incremental steps.

Nazism is but one path of authoritarianism, and I'm not predicting that we will take the same one. But it's clear we're veering in that direction. The purpose of recording history is to teach us about the mistakes and triumphs of the past. To me, reading that passage is absolutely gut-wrenching, and I see far too much of the present reflected in those words. We ignore the lessons of history at our own peril.

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You seem to be arguing against me, but I believe you do so from a misunderstanding.

I am making the argument that arguing that we are on a certain path of incremental change is different from a slippery slope leap of logic and that we should pay heed when such arguments are made to determine if there is merit to the points made instead of screaming "slippery slope" every time.

IOW, we are in general agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Schmidt

Jon said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Schmidt

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If more people will do this that evil and elusive (viable) third party may just come about yet.

CharminTide said:

I agree in principle, but will also caution that there were Germans who used the same argument to soften the Party's incremental steps.

Nazism is but one path of authoritarianism, and I'm not predicting that we will take the same one. But it's clear we're veering in that direction. The purpose of recording history is to teach us about the mistakes and triumphs of the past. To me, reading that passage is absolutely gut-wrenching, and I see far too much of the present reflected in those words. We ignore the lessons of history at our own peril.

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Comparing Hitler’s consolidation of power to Trump’s attempt is ignoring the elephant in the room... The effect of “good” men at a peace table and the Great Depression. Germany was inevitablely heading either to Facism or Communism in the the 1930’s. Hitler just struck faster than the communists and won power. Point is Versailles and the Depression made his rise inevitable. The US has not been on the losing side of a punitive treaty mixed with a global economic collapse. The Germans weren’t able to pay off Versailles until 2010.

Trump might act like a duck and quack like a duck when put side by side with Hitler, but the environment is nowhere ripe enough for him to become Hitler. If I was to compare him to anyone then it would be to Marius. Just another blowhard from the 1% that showed the poor of the divide in the nation from a hegemonic war and made them believe he was one of them when in fact he was just a schmuck looking for power.

We are heading for something and I don’t believe it’s good. But I really have my doubts that it’s nazism.

81usaf92 said:

Comparing Hitler’s consolidation of power to Trump’s attempt is ignoring the elephant in the room... The effect of “good” men at a peace table and the Great Depression. Germany was inevitablely heading either to Facism or Communism in the the 1930’s.

Trump might act like a duck and quack like a duck when put side by side with Hitler, but the environment is nowhere ripe enough for him to become Hitler. If I was to compare him to anyone then it would be to Marius. Just another blowhard from the 1% that showed the poor of the divide in the nation from a hegemonic war and made them believe he was one of them when in fact he was just a schmuck looking for power.

We are heading for something and I don’t believe it’s good. But I really have my doubts that it’s nazism.

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George Wallace might be a more apt comparison.

NationalTitles17 said:

George Wallace might be a more apt comparison.

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True.

CharminTide said:

Sorry if it sounded like I was disagreeing with you. I wasn't, I just haven't had enough coffee this morning.

The "slippery slope" or "alarmist" or "reactionary" label has been used in the past to excuse incremental wrongs. I agree that we need to be careful not to fall in to the same trap.

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Well go get some Red Diamond or Starbucks or something, man!

81usaf92 said:

Comparing Hitler’s consolidation of power to Trump’s attempt is ignoring the elephant in the room... The effect of “good” men at a peace table and the Great Depression. Germany was inevitablely heading either to Facism or Communism in the the 1930’s. Hitler just struck faster than the communists and won power. Point is Versailles and the Depression made his rise inevitable. The US has not been on the losing side of a punitive treaty mixed with a global economic collapse. The Germans weren’t able to pay off Versailles until 2010.

Trump might act like a duck and quack like a duck when put side by side with Hitler, but the environment is nowhere ripe enough for him to become Hitler. If I was to compare him to anyone then it would be to Marius. Just another blowhard from the 1% that showed the poor of the divide in the nation from a hegemonic war and made them believe he was one of them when in fact he was just a schmuck looking for power.

We are heading for something and I don’t believe it’s good. But I really have my doubts that it’s nazism.

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the us has been doing relatively well for most of my lifetime, but the mantra of conservative politicians and media in this country has been that our country is falling apart and is under constant attack and is being destroyed by liberals, immigrants, gays, welfare moochers, etc. and that we have to take it back from "them"

I don’t like calling people “Hitler”. I am not a fan of Trump, but I don’t believe he plans to set up extermination camps. Although I do believe he would have support if he did so.


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92tide said:

the us has been doing relatively well for most of my lifetime, but the mantra of conservative politicians and media in this country has been that our country is falling apart and is under constant attack and is being destroyed by liberals, immigrants, gays, welfare moochers, etc. and that we have to take it back from "them"

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I'm afraid that is at least partially a facade. The rest gets no argument from me, but we have few monetary policy tricks left up our sleeve after the last round of recession and no one in power willing to make tough choices to put the nation in a better position.