CIA: Russia influenced election to help Trump win

tidegrandpa · Dec 11, 2016

seebell said:
The leaked Clinton emails were reported nightly by MSNBC, CNN and other MSM. I saw it with my own beady little eyes. Don't recall seeing any leaked emails about the Republicans.

Glad to set the record straight.

The Republican emails were not as juicy. CNN didn't feed Trump's people debate questions to be discussed.

Tidewater · Dec 11, 2016

Jon said:
ends justify the means apparently

I find that pathetic

Making some pretty big assumptions there, bud.

Tidewater · Dec 11, 2016

CharminTide said:
Indeed. Indeed it does.

Reading between the lines of the CIA briefing, Russia hacked and leaked Democratic secrets to discredit them in favor of their preferred candidate, and are holding hacked Republican secrets hostage. What kind of influence (or blackmail, if you prefer the cynical term) do they have over the ruling party in the U.S. government? I'm honestly surprised that you don't seem to care about this.

Why would you think I don't care about it? Just a hint, "sucks" implies I disapprove. Of both cases.

I do find it amusing that Obama does not know the impropriety of telling foreigners how to vote on their own affairs, but is such a pathetically poor leader, that his improper intervention actually led to the results he opposed.

CharminTide · Dec 11, 2016

Tidewater said:
Why would you think I don't care about it? Just a hint, "sucks" implies I disapprove. Of both cases.

I do find it amusing that Obama does not know the impropriety of telling foreigners how to vote on their own affairs, but is such a pathetically poor leader, that his improper intervention actually led to the results he opposed.

I'm glad that you care. When you shroud your criticism of Trump with your hatred of Obama, it can be hard to tell.

Tide1986 · Dec 11, 2016

Maybe an investigation will conclude something like the following:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-admin-sent-taxpayer-money-oust-netanyahu/

“The State Department ignored warnings signs and funded a politically active group in a politically sensitive environment with inadequate safeguards,” said Sen. Rob Portman, chairman of the investigative subcommittee. “It is completely unacceptable that U.S. taxpayer dollars were used to build a political campaign infrastructure that was deployed — immediately after the grant ended — against the leader of our closest ally in the Middle East. American resources should be used to help our allies in the region, not undermine them.”

Tidewater · Dec 11, 2016

CharminTide said:
I'm glad that you care. When you shroud your criticism of Trump with your hatred of Obama, it can be hard to tell.

I don't hate Obama. I just think he's an awful president. In some ways the worst president the United States have ever had.

As for the hacking, there is a building international consensus that cyberattack is a casus belli, but it depends on effects of the cyberattack. If country A hacks Country B's air traffic control system causing two planes to collide, most countries would regard that as a casus belli, the same as if country A had launched an anti-aircraft missile.
Breaking into the DNC's emails would probably not rise to that level (unless you can demonstrate which Americans were killed as a result of the hacking, or something of similar gravity).
I get it. You're butt hurt. Your candidate lost and you're grasping at straws to make yourself feel better. I am unconvinced that the leaked DNC emails swayed large numbers of American voters. The FSB (or SVR or GRU) broke into the email server, which is a violation of the law. If we can catch the individuals who did this, I'd be all for prosecuting them. By way of comparison, FSB goons murdered a Russian dissident with polonium. The goons got away and Putin refuses to hand them over to the UK for trial. I don't think the US will ever get their hands on the Russians who broke into the DNC server. That's why I said this is an area in which an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.
I am all for investigating this, but do not be disappointed if either (a) no conclusive evidence will come to light implicating Russia or (b) conclusive evidence will be found, but cannot be released in public because it will reveal sources and methods (the Coventry Conundrum). Either way, you're going to be left unsatisfied.

Jon · Dec 11, 2016

Tidewater said:
I don't hate Obama. I just think he's an awful president. In some ways the worst president the United States have ever had.

As for the hacking, there is a building international consensus that cyberattack is a casus belli, but it depends on effects of the cyberattack. If country A hacks Country B's air traffic control system causing two planes to collide, most countries would regard that as a casus belli, the same as if country A had launched an anti-aircraft missile.
Breaking into the DNC's emails would probably not rise to that level (unless you can demonstrate which Americans were killed as a result of the hacking, or something of similar gravity).
I get it. You're butt hurt. Your candidate lost and you're grasping at straws to make yourself feel better. I am unconvinced that the leaked DNC emails swayed large numbers of American voters. The FSB (or SVR or GRU) broke into the email server, which is a violation of the law. If we can catch the individuals who did this, I'd be all for prosecuting them. By way of comparison, FSB goons murdered a Russian dissident with polonium. The goons got away and Putin refuses to hand them over to the UK for trial. I don't think the US will ever get their hands on the Russians who broke into the DNC server. That's why I said this is an area in which an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.
I am all for investigating this, but do not be disappointed if either (a) no conclusive evidence will come to light implicating Russia or (b) conclusive evidence will be found, but cannot be released in public because it will reveal sources and methods (the Coventry Conundrum). Either way, you're going to be left unsatisfied.

you had me till Butt hurt, stop and realize that those of us that you accuse of being butt hurt because of the results of the election were trying to bring this subject up on nonsports when all of us knew that Trump had no way of winning. Clearly we weren't ok with this even when we thought we'd win

and there is no way I could be satisfied with an antagonistic foreign power affecting our election

CharminTide · Dec 11, 2016

Tidewater said:
I get it. You're butt hurt. Your candidate lost and you're grasping at straws to make yourself feel better.

No, you really don't get it at all.

Tide1986 · Dec 11, 2016

Jon said:
you had me till Butt hurt, stop and realize that those of us that you accuse of being butt hurt because of the results of the election were trying to bring this subject up on nonsports when all of us knew that Trump had no way of winning. Clearly we weren't ok with this even when we thought we'd win

and there is no way I could be satisfied with an antagonistic foreign power affecting our election

"Affecting"? What's your evidence?

Tidewater · Dec 11, 2016

Jon said:
you had me till Butt hurt, stop and realize that those of us that you accuse of being butt hurt because of the results of the election were trying to bring this subject up on nonsports when all of us knew that Trump had no way of winning. Clearly we weren't ok with this even when we thought we'd win

I thought you did not a Democrat. So who is "we?"

and there is no way I could be satisfied with an antagonistic foreign power affecting our election

I have not seen any evidence that this had any effect on the election?
So, were there millions of Clinton supporters a few weeks before the election who read the DNC emails and said to themselves, "Shazam. That does it. I'm voting for Trump." I just don't see any evidence of that.

Tidewater · Dec 11, 2016

CharminTide said:
No, you really don't get it at all.

So explain your obsession with this topic. Please.

crimson fan man · Dec 11, 2016

It comes down to who trust what the government tells them about what really went on. To be honest I don't believe anything what this government tells us.

Jon · Dec 11, 2016

Tidewater said:
I thought you did not a Democrat. So who is "we?"

I have not seen any evidence that this had any effect on the election?
So, were there millions of Clinton supporters a few weeks before the election who read the DNC emails and said to themselves, "Shazam. That does it. I'm voting for Trump." I just don't see any evidence of that.

We as in us as in those of us that voted for Hilary Clinton

yes I did that, first time I've ever voted Democrat because I find Putin's puppet to be too dangerous to risk voting for Gary Johnson on the off chance that GA would be close

and I never made that claim, not once though I know a lot of people who said "I just can't vote for Her either so I just won't vote" plenty of them

Tide1986 · Dec 11, 2016

Jon said:
We as in us as in those of us that voted for Hilary Clinton

yes I did that, first time I've ever voted Democrat because I find Putin's puppet to be too dangerous to risk voting for Gary Johnson on the off chance that GA would be close

and I never made that claim, not once though I know a lot of people who said "I just can't vote for Her either so I just won't vote" plenty of them

Are you saying that it would've been better for all the dirty tricks to have remained secret so all those who didn't vote would've come out and voted for Hillary?

Jon · Dec 11, 2016

Tide1986 said:
Are you saying that it would've been better for all the dirty tricks to have remained secret so all those who didn't vote would've come out and voted for Hillary?

I think Hillary is a far less dangerous person than Trump for the short and long term health of our Country. Basically I agree with Putin that he is far, far worse for us

Tide1986 · Dec 11, 2016

Jon said:
I think Hillary is a far less dangerous person than Trump for the short and long term health of our Country. Basically I agree with Putin that he is far, far worse for us

So the end DOES justify the means?

Tidewater · Dec 11, 2016

Jon said:
We as in us as in those of us that voted for Hilary Clinton

yes I did that, first time I've ever voted Democrat because I find Putin's puppet to be too dangerous to risk voting for Gary Johnson on the off chance that GA would be close

Your reading of recent history is a bit creative. Did you call Trump "Putin's puppet" before the election?

and I never made that claim, not once though I know a lot of people who said "I just can't vote for Her either so I just won't vote" plenty of them

Yet you did write this, on this very thread.

Jon said:
I don't want Hillary as President, never did, still don't.

And yet, you voted for her.
I, on the other hand, did not vote for Trump.
I just don't see that the DNC revelations swayed a lot of voters. Maybe, but I have yet to see it. Heck the off/on-again/off-again FBI investigation probably swayed more voters. That and running a very unsympathetic candidate.

Tide1986 · Dec 11, 2016

Tidewater said:
Your reading of recent history is a bit creative. Did you call Trump "Putin's puppet" before the election?

Yet you did write this, on this very thread.
And yet, you voted for her.
I, on the other hand, did not vote for Trump.
I just don't see that the DNC revelations swayed a lot of voters. Maybe, but I have yet to see it. Heck the off/on-again/off-again FBI investigation probably swayed more voters. That and running a very unsympathetic candidate.

The "Putin's puppet" line is quite hypocritical given the left's support of the Obama/Hillary Russia reset, which was intended to create friendlier relations. Now they don't want more cordial relations with Russia because the opposition is in power? Schizophrenic to say the least.

tidegrandpa · Dec 11, 2016

Tide1986 said:
The "Putin's puppet" line is quite hypocritical given the left's support of the Obama/Hillary Russia reset, which was intended to create friendlier relations. Now they don't want more cordial relations with Russia because the opposition is in power? Schizophrenic to say the least.

And this gem...

Tidewater · Dec 11, 2016

tidegrandpa said:
And this gem...

What's really precious about that episode was Obama talking to Medvedev like Medvedev was really in charge of something. Obama would have been better served going directly to Putin.
Once again, Obama treats the world as he wants it to be, not as it is. What a horrible president he has been. An eight-year kay-tas-trophy.

CIA: Russia influenced election to help Trump win

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