Kiffin's first recruit was dismissed from FSU for punching a woman in a bar...

She makes no attempt to actually hit him. He could have turned and walked away. He was completely unjustified. Period. That said, I'm done with this one.

If she had hit him........and he never laid a hand on her (in other words just stood there and took the hit, then called 9-1-1), could she have ended up with the same thing that he was charged with?

TIDE-HSV said:

No, you're not, not against someone you outweigh by 80lb and even more in muscle mass. The law requires you to handle it in a different matter. BTW, he pled down, in order to escape a more serious charge. I watched the video several times and I don't accept your description of the incident, nor do I think most would. Anyway, it's not a situation in which the law will allow you to avail yourself of a "self defense" defense. Too much disparity in size and strength...

Edit: I think you're badly confusing retaliation and defense. There is no right of retaliation, period. The disparity of size was such that he had nothing real to fear from her and his striking her physically was not an act of defense. It was an act of retaliation...

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Here is where the law becomes unequal then and skewed towards women.
You may not accept what I said about the video but I'm not wrong.

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NationalTitles16 said:

She makes no attempt to actually hit him. He could have turned and walked away. He was completely unjustified. Period. That said, I'm done with this one.

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What video were you watching? She cocked back and he grabbed her hand. She then broke loose and hit him. That's two attempts with one of those attempts being she actually struck him.


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Bazza said:

If she had hit him........and he never laid a hand on her (in other words just stood there and took the hit, then called 9-1-1), could she have ended up with the same thing that he was charged with?

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Common sense would say yes, but the laws aren't of common sense.


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TIDE-HSV said:

Legally speaking, he is a 200lb, conditioned athlete, and she is, from the video, a average-sized woman. Had she been a man close to his size, they both would have been charged, probably with battery or, in Alabama, there is an "affray" charge, which basically means fighting. It's not gender, it's disparity of size, strength and force. In the video, he lays hands on her first, before she tries to hit back or knee him. That in itself is a threat, given the difference in size. He pled guilty to misdemeanor and then apologized. This was the correct charge and he would never been able to claim self-defense. It should be obvious that there is no such defense as "she deserved it."

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No offense but this, in my opinion, is a crock.

I've personally seen a number of instances where a much smaller, adult male - whether due to the ingestion of liquid courage, an over-inflamed ego, and/or an attempt to impress someone - picked a fight with a significantly larger, stronger, adult male and got charged either with the same offense as the larger guy or while the other guy wasn't charged at all.

Maybe it shouldn't matter but sex is, realistically, by far the biggest factor in these types of cases.

Personally, I think sex and size shouldn't matter in instances like this - only adulthood and/or mental disability. What I would like to see, legally, is that if one non-mentally-disabled adult walks up to another adult - whatever the reason - and strikes them then they waive their right to not to be struck back and deserve to get struck themselves, while the person they attacked is allowed to immediately retaliate in self-defense. If you're stupid enough to walk up to someone far larger and stronger - or even far more trained - and punch them in the face then you deserve to get the crap beat out of yourself. JMO.

Now, of course, escalation does need to be considered which I think would be an issue in this particular case. It's one thing to return a shove with a shove or a slap with a slap as opposed to returning a slap with a few broken bones.

Finally, the threat of escalation should also be a factor. While initiating a physical altercation is a definite threat of physical violence, the verbal threat of a weapon should carry the same weight as the presence of a weapon in regard to self-defense. If someone threatens to shoot or stab you, you should have the right to immediately do whatever you have to do to incapacitate the other person in order to defend yourself. If it turns out that they didn't have a weapon on them that shouldn't be your fault; they indicated that they had one.

This whole "a man should just walk away because he's a man" attitude is both a double-standard and, by definition, sexist.

If you can defuse a situation and/or just walk away then, of course, that is the preferable path. However, if the other person won't allow that then you should legally be allowed to beat the crap out of them after they initiate a physical altercation.

Wow[emoji16]


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it's turning into a regular men's rights extravaganza up in here

92tide said:

it's turning into a regular men's rights extravaganza up in here

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Nah, don't let it confuse you. It's equal rights. Do we treat women the same or different? I'm all for women's rights. I'm not with superiority.


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Bamabuzzard said:

Regardless of what the law allows me to do. It would take A LOT for me to hit a woman. But I do see the gripe regarding inconsistency of how the law is applied based on whether one is a female compared to a male. It's one of those where many point to and say "Women want equality except when it doesn't benefit them. Then they want to be treated different." There's some merit to that argument. Even still. If you're a man. Just walk away.

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You get the point. I'm in agreement, just walk away. I am not advocating men go around and just start beating on women. Far from it. It's wrong, but sometimes women have to take responsibility for their actions. If we don't require women to do that... well it's a slippery slope and we've been slipping down that slope for a while now.

I have daughters that I have to train, along with their mother, to become women. I have to give realistic expectations. If you go and do something to someone you can't expect them to do nothing back. Would I want a man punching them in the face? No. It's best to try and avoid those situations. Both should walk away.

She should have been charged as well as he.


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Bamabuzzard said:

I've got two sisters and I remember growing up hearing my dad tell them "Don't put on a man shoes and expect to be treated like a woman." His point wasn't for my sisters to accept having less "rights" than men or thinking men were superior. His point was don't have the belief that you can do anything you want to a man then when things get too hot for you pull the "but I'm a woman card". Think before you act in other words.

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That's my whole point in this. Thanks. Now, does this carry weight in the subject at hand? I believe so. We all should think before we act but by today's standards someone get more of a pass than the other. Those laws are unfair in my opinion.


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TIDE-HSV said:

Sorry, that's just not what I see...

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May I ask what you see?


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JBama_in_PCOLA said:

Nah, don't let it confuse you. It's equal rights. Do we treat women the same or different? I'm all for women's rights. I'm not with superiority.


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kudos for taking such a bold stand for equality

92tide said:

kudos for taking such a bold stand for equality

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Love the condescending tone here. It's clear you don't get the point here.


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TIDE-HSV said:

I see a verbal exchange and then his laying his hands on her first. Then she starts to try to defend. Why do you think she wasn't charged?

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So you do not see her .... back her fist in an attempt to hit him?


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