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Kiffin's first recruit was dismissed from FSU for punching a woman in a bar...

JBama_in_PCOLA

JBama_in_PCOLA

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92tide said:
yeah, i used to hear that a lot from guys when i was growing up. didn't buy it then and don't now. but that's just me.

in this instance, dude's a division 1 football player. you either grab her arms to keep her from hitting you or you get up and walk away. at least on the surface, it seems like he's learned from the incident.
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If you go back to the video, that's what he tried to do, she got loose and hit him in the face. Video showed that, now what.


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92tide

92tide

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JBama_in_PCOLA said:
True, which he was trying to do but she wouldn't stop. I get what you are saying. He got what he deserved as well. He shouldn't have hit her. However, she got exactly what she deserved too.

By the way, what do you say to the men that got murdered? Walk away?
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i am talking about the qb that is going to play for kiffin. what men who got murdered are you talking about?
 
JBama_in_PCOLA

JBama_in_PCOLA

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92tide said:
i am talking about the qb that is going to play for chiffon. what men who got murdered are you talking about?
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Ok I'll leave my example alone.


He was trying to walk away, she was trying to hit him, he didn't want to be hit and he grabbed her arms to he would not get hit. She got loose and hit him in the face. He retaliates, and he goes to jail. Where's the equality here? Should she get charged too or are we holding women to a different standard here?


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NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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JBama_in_PCOLA said:
Ok I'll leave my example alone.


He was trying to walk away, she was trying to hit him, he didn't want to be hit and he grabbed her arms to he would not get hit. She got loose and hit him in the face. He retaliates, and he goes to jail. Where's the equality here? Should she get charged too or are we holding women to a different standard here?


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Frankly, yeah, I'd Charge Them Both in that case.
 
JBama_in_PCOLA

JBama_in_PCOLA

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TIDE-HSV said:
I'm going to make this one comment and then this thread must go back to Kiffin. The dilemma of when to lash out on a woman will have to go to NS. In my view - and it the view of the vast majority, including the law - is that even a blow by smaller weaker person never justifies assault and battery - NEVER. I just don't understand. I guess it would have been OK under that theory to slug a 10 year old kid. He got what he deserved - a summary dismissal. Now, no more here. Take it to the NS board. I'll start a thread over there...
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What you said here is incorrect. If I go and punch Shaq in his face and he retaliates in fashion nothing would happen to Shaq. I would be the one that does to jail not Shaq. And rightly so.

Why would this case be any different? Because Shaq can hit harder than me, he should go to jail. What you are saying pertaining to the law doesn't make sense.



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NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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JBama_in_PCOLA said:
That didn't happen though. The law is unequal here.


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But that is different than "she got what she deserved". If she had a weapon it would change the equation. Two people equal in physical stature does change the equation vs two people very different in physical stature. Sometimes the man has to walk away. IDK, push her down and move away. Don't knock her out cold. A more proportionate response taking into account the size difference might be appropriate if the intent is to stop the attack against himself. Would it change the equation for you if it was a 5 year old or an 80 year old woman? If so, why?
 
crimsonaudio

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The reality is he's kept himself clean for two years and is apparently touring around talking to kids about it.

I mean, how long should he be punished for this?

This is not a player Bama needs to pursue - I think everyone knows how I feel about that - but a place like FAU might be the perfect spot for this guy to get his life straightened out...
 
JBama_in_PCOLA

JBama_in_PCOLA

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NationalTitles16 said:
But that is different than "she got what she deserved". If she had a weapon it would change the equation. Two people equal in physical stature does change the equation vs two people very different in physical stature. Sometimes the man has to walk away. IDK, push her down and move away. Don't knock her out cold. A more proportionate response taking into account the size difference might be appropriate if the intent is to stop the attack against himself. Would it change the equation for you if it was a 5 year old or an 80 year old woman? If so, why?
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He didn't knock her out cold though. In his case he tried to walk away and it wasn't enough. If it was two men different in stature this is an non-story. Cops aren't even called, but a belligerent woman totally different. Though she was dead wrong nothing happens to her but only because she's a woman. It doesn't change because of age. Wrong at 5 would still be wrong at 80. Maybe we should give the 80 a little bit, but I wouldn't be mad.

We do punish our five year olds for things they do wrong though, maybe not punch them in the face. As an adult, I really don't care. You should know the difference between right and wrong.


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Mystical

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Mystical said:
He was only charged with a misdemeanor which seems crazy. There was a video of what happened. Seems this happened in a mall. She pushed him. He turned around than she tried to slap him in the face but got his neck. He should have just walked away but punched her in the face. The police said if it had been a man he would not have been charged at all. Unless its Rhonda Rousey attacking you as a man you should be able to walk away. Than again if its Rhonda Rousey attacking you may better run away fast. Seriously I have been slapped more than once by females each time I walked away and ran if they were really irate. Seems some ladies don't take it to well when you are not faithful.
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This is what I said on the Joe Mixon thread. Someone actually thumbed down my post. I guess there are a few people that think a man should not walk away.

JBama_in_PCOLA said:
This is the one where she hit him in the face and then he gave her the two piece and a biscuit.


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Even though I don't agree this should have happened, I spit my drink on my laptop when I read this. Literally laughed out loud.
 
TIDE-HSV

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Legally speaking, he is a 200lb, conditioned athlete, and she is, from the video, a average-sized woman. Had she been a man close to his size, they both would have been charged, probably with battery or, in Alabama, there is an "affray" charge, which basically means fighting. It's not gender, it's disparity of size, strength and force. In the video, he lays hands on her first, before she tries to hit back or knee him. That in itself is a threat, given the difference in size. He pled guilty to misdemeanor and then apologized. This was the correct charge and he would never been able to claim self-defense. It should be obvious that there is no such defense as "she deserved it."
 
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NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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TIDE-HSV said:
Legally speaking, as a 200lb, conditioned athlete, and she is, from the video, a average-sized woman. Had she been a man close to his size, they both would have been charged, probably with battery or, in Alabama, there is an "affray" charge, which basically means fighting. It's not gender, it's disparity of size, strength and force. In the video, he lays hands on her first, before she tries to hit back or knee him. That in itself is a threat, given the difference in size. He pled guilty to misdemeanor and then apologized. This was the correct charge and he would never been able to claim self-defense. It should be obvious that there is no such defense as "she deserved it."
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Thank you for an accurate description of the video. I have no desire to look it up. All my comments to now have been "if that's the way it happened".
 
TIDE-HSV

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NationalTitles16 said:
Thank you for an accurate description of the video. I have no desire to look it up. All my comments to now have been "if that's the way it happened".
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If I have to, I'll freeze frame it and put up where he grabs her. You just aren't entitled to lay hands on someone you outweigh that much, period. I'm sure his lawyer told him that he didn't have a chance and his best option was to plead guilty, which he did. His apology acknowledges that he should - and could - have walked away. He had no right, legally or morally, to slug her the way he did...
 
JBama_in_PCOLA

JBama_in_PCOLA

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TIDE-HSV said:
Legally speaking, he is a 200lb, conditioned athlete, and she is, from the video, a average-sized woman. Had she been a man close to his size, they both would have been charged, probably with battery or, in Alabama, there is an "affray" charge, which basically means fighting. It's not gender, it's disparity of size, strength and force. In the video, he lays hands on her first, before she tries to hit back or knee him. That in itself is a threat, given the difference in size. He pled guilty to misdemeanor and then apologized. This was the correct charge and he would never been able to claim self-defense. It should be obvious that there is no such defense as "she deserved it."
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He actually pled not guilty first then apologized then pled to the lesser charge.


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TIDE-HSV

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JBama_in_PCOLA said:
https://youtu.be/hGGdlL5U61U

Ok he laid hands on her after she threatened to hit him. She cocked back, he grabbed her hand. I guess you aren't allowed to defend yourself.


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No, you're not, not against someone you outweigh by 80lb and even more in muscle mass. The law requires you to handle it in a different matter. BTW, he pled down, in order to escape a more serious charge. I watched the video several times and I don't accept your description of the incident, nor do I think most would. Anyway, it's not a situation in which the law will allow you to avail yourself of a "self defense" defense. Too much disparity in size and strength...

Edit: I think you're badly confusing retaliation and defense. There is no right of retaliation, period. The disparity of size was such that he had nothing real to fear from her and his striking her physically was not an act of defense. It was an act of retaliation...
 
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