*** SPOILERS*** Star Wars Rogue One*** WARNING SPOILERS***

81usaf92 said:

Ok my main problem is the story can be break neck speed at times, but i think the epic battle and the Darth Jason Voorhees scene made up for its faults. I think my biggest nit pick moments come when Grand Moth Tarkin is on scene. Sometimes Im convinced Peter Cushing is back from the dead and sometimes I see the video game graphics. He is best when he is in the shadows or in a panned shot. Dont get me wrong I get why they did it and it is very good CGI, but sometimes it took me out of the movie.

I think the second thing that took me out of the movie is the octopus mind reader monster. Take it out and the plot is no different, just less weirder.

The Darth Jason Voorhees moment is probably the best Vader scene ever

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you and I are on the same page. I'm still not sure why they included Tarkin/Cushing and if they had to why in person? A hologram video chat like we've seen in other Star Wars films, would have worked perfectly for all of the scenes and not looked like video game cut scenes.

The tentacle monster was weird, and frankly as was Saw Garerra in general. I'm still not sure why I was supposed to care and I still don't get why he didn't leave with Jyn. I mean he could have just walked out, but chose to stay and die. For what reason I have no idea. I see the octopus mind reader as similar to the Rathtar scenes in Force Awakens a chance to run to the bathroom and miss nothing of importance.

as I said in the other thread the fan service stuff bothered me more the first time. The blue milk, R2/3PO, the dudes from the bar in Mos Eisley all felt like stuff the studio threw in to make it more "Star warsy" and it felt out of place for the darker tone of this movie. On 2nd viewing it didn't bother me as much. I particularly like the inclusion of Red/Gold leader from original 1970's footage and that there is a blue squadron that is eliminated in this film as well as why Red 5 was available for Luke

My thoughts:

The general story outline is solid but you can definitely tell that there were significant reshoots especially in the middle third of the movie. I thought all of the characters were underdeveloped. I can't even remember most of their names. Who was the rebel operative Jen was assigned with early in the movie? Cassiopeia, Casio G Shock? I don't understand the point of the two asian characters. Wait, yes I do. They were there to try to make Star Wars work in the Chinese market (TFA was a flop of sorts over there). There was really little need for the pilot to tagalong too. He was a dang macguffin plot device for all intents and purposes. They should've focused on the rebel operative guy (I'm just gonna call him Casio for now), Jen, and the droid...everyone else just be a meat shield.

I think the reshoots were all about watering down Jen's rebel without a cause, devil may care attitude and making Casio more redeemable. I don't think the early test demoes played well with moms, so they really chopped up the middle third and made it a less cohesive movie with a bunch of bland characters.

With that said, what we have here is the most competent attempt at a "prequel" of any in this series. You can't even evaluate Episode I-III as movies because there are filmmaking miscues in those that a TCF-101 student wouldn't even make. Those movies were outright abortions and were more about Lucas getting return on investment on all his ILM technology than making a good Star Wars flick.

Rogue One is more good than bad. A solid C+ or B- type popcorn flick. It makes me like The Force Awakens even more in comparison though. TFA had far more interesting characters. For whatever people can say about TFA being a ripoff of the original movie, I didn't even notice while watching it because I was so interested in the progression of Rey, Finn, and Poe as heroes. Rogue One had all the elements there in terms of scale, great cinematography, and meshing the story into the original trilogy such that it almost directly connects to the opening scene of A New Hope. The characters were just there as a manner of convenience to get us to that quite literal hand off to A New Hope.

81usaf92 said:

I think Rogue 1 and FA are reflections of each other. One starts out with a bang but ends with a thud (FA), while one starts with a kitten's meow and ends with a lion's roar (R1). Then one is characters over story, and the other is story over characters. Its really what you value most in a Star Wars when you judge which one is better than the other. For me FA was about to win me over until the third act, and not Im not talking about the Han Solo scene because I expected it with the many times Harrison has been hinting at that over the years. I'm talking about how the whole story is a carbon copy of A New Hope, but the whole space battle is a total letdown compared to the Death Star run in ANH. R1 almost made me put at 6th best until the final battle and the Darth Vader scene. Maybe ending on such an epic note, filling in plot holes for the exhaust port of the DS, and taking many more chances than FA did made me like it more.

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I'll agree with your other points and say that for me, the space battles are always secondary and almost background color whereas the character arcs are what matter to me in a starwars move. To that end TFA really worked as I loved Rey and Fin's stories. In fact when Rey gets the lightsaber instead of Kylo at the end of TFA is to me one of the most powerful moments in any star wars movie and even after dozens of viewings still works for me. In fact if you are going to judge on space battles I'd recommend the Clone Wars cartoon that had some amazing ones

The troubled Cassian > crisis of conscience finn. Rey had more time to breathe as a character and R1 was forced tell Jyn's character within the context of this two hour film. Rey is obviously the better character, but I just wish the told a more well-rounded story with Jyn. If we had more time to emotional invest in these characters, the end could have had more potential for emotional impact, kind of like seeing Solo dying in TFA (I hope I didn't spoil that for anybody). Obviously this movie main purpose was to set up ANH, so I hate that the protagonists were pretty much throwaway characters.

Nonetheless, I thought this was the best story SW has told in it's history.

I have to admit - had serious misgivings about this movie but it turned out great! I would add this to the original trilogy and make it a perfect 4. It was kinda slow in the beginning but at the end, it made sense and was perfectly done! Everyone had to die and I'm glad those two main characters didn't make out. Well done! Plus that vader scene - holy smokes!!!

I know that I'm late, but I really enjoyed the movie. I enjoyed the Easter eggs and thought it did a good job of re-creating the Star Wars feel.

I feel that the characters were underdeveloped on purpose, seeing as they all die in the end. I think it is a story that is worth telling and adds much to A New Hope.

Great movie, much preferred it over The Force Awakens. The Empire actually doesn't seem completely incompetent. And Vader is an absolute boss. Must have been taking it easy on his old master in the next film.


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81usaf92 said:

After seeing R1 for a 2nd time and watching many other Star Wars stuff I think the main reason I like it is that it has very little George Lucas involvement. Lucas thinks bug, and has great imagination, but he has a hard time calling the shots. I think many of Star Wars fans gave him a pass in ROJ and PM (at first) because the duels were awesome, but we really should have known that the Ewoks and the Special Editions were just the beginning. Lucas even managed to make me hope Harrison ford is too old for another Indiana Jones.

Also it should be noted that there are far better interpretations of characters in cannoned media than what lucas gave us with the prequels.

Just imagine if we got this General Grievous

instead of this one

There are tons of other examples from Darth Maul getting a better run on Clone Wars and Rebels to making the Clone Wars feel more meaningful. I think the prequels would have done better if we started with the Clone Wars beginning and Anakin emerging during them instead of the forced romance and etc.

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Love the Samurai Jack Clone Wars Grievous I have it's action figure on my desk. Getting Lucas out of Star Wars was the best thing that ever happened.

81usaf92 said:

I remember when I first heard about Grievous from my friend who is a bigger Star Wars fan than me. I kinda lost faith in Lucas after Episode II, and was more looking forward to see Vader's reveal. But he kept on and on about Grievous, and I kept on saying Im not believing the hype because Lucas has done injustice on hyped up characters (Boba Fett and Maul) since RTJ. Then I started playing Republic Commando (if anything there was anything the prequels did very well it was video games) and you get a brief glimpse of grievous and I was thinking " huh that looks cool". But it wasn't until Genndy Tartakovsky's introduction of him that I was like "holy crap, that is totally cool". And when I went to see Grievous on the Big screen... I said "Darn you George Lucas".

I swear Lucas lost touch with his fans after Irvin Kershner one upped him in Empire. Its like he either tries to do too much fan service or not enough. Then he gets caught up with stupid fan debates, and feels he has to correct it. Seriously why is the " Who shot first?" really that big of a deal? Its because Lucas has to change it ten billion times. I get the sense he didn't have any "No" guys with the prequels. Ive heard several times while pre production with Indiana Jones 4 was happening, him and Speilberg fought contentiously over including Aliens,ants, and other ridiculous stuff. Speilberg said one of his worst decisions ever was caving.

kershner I think really made Star Wars better by going against Lucas. Empire, whether its your favorite or not, gives Star Wars its core. Just look at these scenes.


Here is Speilberg vs Lucas. You can tell Speilberg wants to say something a little less nice about Lucas, but he and Lucas are too good of friends for him to do it.


Just for fun, what if Lucas directed the lord of rings?



With the mouse, I think we are safe in story wise, but again we might get too many stories. But its way better than giving Lucas anymore input.

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cut out the videos in my response to save space

you know Kershner and his son are writing the Han Solo stand alone? And that it will have Donald Glover as Lando? I can't wait


I think Lucas's largest problem is that he has no real connection to the real world and his best editor, his Ex-wife, left. From the stories I've heard if not for her editing and control on Star Wars the movie would have been a complete disaster too. And yes Empire is the best of all no question.