QB and Center Communication/Snap Signal

BamaMoon · Jan 7, 2017

I know we were a mess in the game against Washington and I know that's been addressed.

But, I'm wondering why we've changed the way we signal a snap when the QB is in the pistol formation.

I can't remember when the change occurred but I know the QB used to "lift a foot" and now he "claps."

At least once against Washington, JH kept clapping and the center never heard him and didn't snap the ball. When the Center turned around I read his lips and he said, "I can't hear you."

So why the change?

Seems the "lifting foot" signal would work better in noisy situations anyway.

VirginiaTide57 · Jan 7, 2017

I remember a Washington play where the center snapped early and the announcers said and replay showed a Bama player on the defensive line clapping once but it wasn't clear to me if it was intentional to mess up the play.

B1GTide · Jan 7, 2017

Saban said afterward that Alabama had not anticipated the crowd noise and had to change during the game. Apparently they did not practice for this during the week. I assume that you will practice/prepare for high crowd noise this week.

USCBAMA · Jan 7, 2017

B1GTide said:
Saban said afterward that Alabama had not anticipated the crowd noise and had to change during the game. Apparently they did not practice for this during the week. I assume that you will practice/prepare for high crowd noise this week.

The Washington crowd noise was more than expected, kudos to their fans for that.

TIDE-HSV · Jan 7, 2017

VirginiaTide57 said:
I remember a Washington play where the center snapped early and the announcers said and replay showed a Bama player on the defensive line clapping once but it wasn't clear to me if it was intentional to mess up the play.

I watched that a couple of times. I think it was accidental. He seemed to saying "Let's go!"

BamaMoon · Jan 7, 2017

I'm just wondering why we went away from the other method...that takes the crowd noise out of it all together. Seems as though JH has done the clap all season long. IIRC, JC, last year, used his foot.

AlexD · Jan 7, 2017

If the center is watching for the foot his head is down which makes making his calls and checks hard then lifts his head up and finally snaps the ball. That's why some teams have the guard looking back who taps the center when Qb is ready.

KrAzY3 · Jan 7, 2017

USCBAMA said:
The Washington crowd noise was more than expected, kudos to their fans for that.

Fans in the state of Washington get it apparently. I was still surprised by the amount of noise they made considering how outnumbered they were, but clearly they understand their role in terms of impacting the game. They're not just spectators...

Intl.Aperture · Jan 7, 2017

TIDE-HSV said:
I watched that a couple of times. I think it was accidental. He seemed to saying "Let's go!"

Even if the clap was purposeful I'd say it falls more into the category of gamesmanship. There was no personal foul or risk of injury but just a heady way to take advantage of a gap in their snap count protocol. IMO it shouldn't be a penalty. Communication is key in football and defenses should have the latitude to disrupt the offenses method of communication as long as they are on their side of the LOS. What I think makes it acceptable is there are ways for the offense to counter that disruption. It's not like a holding penalty where there's really nothing you can do about it. When operating out the gun you have a certain variety of snap counts available to you and the defense knows that. The same goes for operating under center. I don't have a beef with it.

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bamadws56 · Jan 7, 2017

Intl.Aperture said:
Even if the clap was purposeful I'd say it falls more into the category of gamesmanship. There was no personal foul or risk of injury but just a heady way to take advantage of a gap in their snap count protocol. IMO it shouldn't be a penalty. Communication is key in football and defenses should have the latitude to disrupt the offenses method of communication as long as they are on their side of the LOS. What I think makes it acceptable is there are ways for the offense to counter that disruption. It's not like a holding penalty where there's really nothing you can do about it. When operating out the gun you have a certain variety of snap counts available to you and the defense knows that. The same goes for operating under center. I don't have a beef with it.

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It was intentional as heck and a great play. No different than a QB using a hard snap count trying to get the defensive players to jump offsides. Great play by a veteran senior (even if it is bending or pushing the rules).

JDCrimson · Jan 7, 2017

I do not like the clap because a defensive player can look at QBs hands moving and try to anticipate snap. They need come up with a better way.

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Tidewater · Jan 7, 2017

bamadws56 said:
It was intentional as heck and a great play. No different than a QB using a hard snap count trying to get the defensive players to jump offsides. Great play by a veteran senior (even if it is bending or pushing the rules).

I'm not sure, but I believe that a defensive player deliberately simulating the offensive snap count is a penalty.

Nolan · Jan 7, 2017

Tidewater said:
I'm not sure, but I believe that a defensive player deliberately simulating the offensive snap count is a penalty.

I believe you're correct. If I'm not mistaken, it's considered a "delay of game," 5 yards, automatic first down.

crimsonaudio · Jan 7, 2017

Tidewater said:
I'm not sure, but I believe that a defensive player deliberately simulating the offensive snap count is a penalty.

It is a penalty, though it shouldn't be.

Snuffy Smith · Jan 7, 2017

crimsonaudio said:
It is a penalty, though it shouldn't be.

It has always been a penalty for the defense to call the snap count. NCAA "clarified" the rule last year to include clapping if that is what the opponent is using to call for the snap.

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TIDE-HSV · Jan 7, 2017

Intl.Aperture said:
Even if the clap was purposeful I'd say it falls more into the category of gamesmanship. There was no personal foul or risk of injury but just a heady way to take advantage of a gap in their snap count protocol. IMO it shouldn't be a penalty. Communication is key in football and defenses should have the latitude to disrupt the offenses method of communication as long as they are on their side of the LOS. What I think makes it acceptable is there are ways for the offense to counter that disruption. It's not like a holding penalty where there's really nothing you can do about it. When operating out the gun you have a certain variety of snap counts available to you and the defense knows that. The same goes for operating under center. I don't have a beef with it.

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That may be your feeling, but it's supposed to have been a penalty. We just got away with it, probably because no official heard it and realized it came from our side...

TrampLineman · Jan 7, 2017

Yea I think it was on purpose too and yes it should have been a penalty, but not sure if Anderson was just lucky or timed it perfectly.

I told one of my friends I would have defensive signals where the LB does some kind of clap just to mess with the offense. If they can clap for the snap, why can't a LB'er clap to call a certain defensive play call?:biggrin:

B1GTide · Jan 7, 2017

Snuffy Smith said:
It has always been a penalty for the defense to call the snap count. NCAA "clarified" the rule last year to include clapping if that is what the opponent is using to call for the snap.

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Same thought process that keeps QBs from drawing the defense offside. I agree with them. Beat the other team, don't "trick" the other team.

BamaMoon · Jan 7, 2017

AlexD said:
If the center is watching for the foot his head is down which makes making his calls and checks hard then lifts his head up and finally snaps the ball. That's why some teams have the guard looking back who taps the center when Qb is ready.

AJ never had a problem with it...or his centers. The center making the line calls is usually done as soon as they get to the LOS I think so by that point he ought to be able to know the qb is ready using the foot signal.

I think the center may have the ability to hesitate...maybe even audible on the line count if he needs to. Sometimes you'd see AJ lift his foot and then it seemed an audible was called by him or the center and then he'd lift his foot again and finally the center would snap it when he was ready.

crimsonaudio · Jan 7, 2017

Snuffy Smith said:
It has always been a penalty for the defense to call the snap count. NCAA "clarified" the rule last year to include clapping if that is what the opponent is using to call for the snap.

Yup, just saying it shouldn't be, imo.

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