Depression Board - what hurts most about this loss

CrimsonForce said:

Yep. Jackson and SDH being out really impacted the game. Their replacements, or who ended up on the field, Evans and Brown, are better athletes but they're not always in the correct position. See the long screen pass. Tony Brown was completely out of position and whiffed the tackle..

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Hootie seemed out of place too, like a fish out of water thing.


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I have some Facebook friends who are Clemson fans. They have been posting Clemson things, which is okay I guess... but one of them posted the article that quotes one of our players saying he felt the refs were against us. I started to read the comments below the article and got mad because every comment was about how Bama players were the ones not getting called for targeting, holding, etc. They said it was the same way last year (that the refs were for us). We had about 95 yards of penalties and they had, what, 35 yards? My Facebook friends did not say this (but may be thinking it).

It still bothers me that we could have won by just doing a few more things (another 1st down, a completion instead of dropped pass, Bo not getting hurt, etc). I guess it was just not meant to be. We seemed to have more serious injuries that affected us this year than in the past few years.

I didn't read the thread, just read one or two posts about how this defense wasn't to be thought of with 92, or 11 anymore. I'll say this, and don't care if I catch flack.

If 1992 Alabama was transported in time to play against Clemson in place of our current team, Clemson would beat them by 4 scores. They couldn't hang with Watson, and if Clemson ran 99 plays against them they'd get beat VERY bad.

We look back on that defense with a lot of fondness, but athletes today are way better. If you teleported 2016 team back to 1992 we'd go undefeated and not have a team within 30 points of us.

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selmaborntidefan said:

I personally thought that Jalen should have hit the deck around the two-yard line and let the clock run - but it's easy for me to say that, too. The irony is this: if he had done this and it had WORKED and we had won....he would be praised coast to coast this morning for having the 'mentality nd awareness of a fifth-year senior.' But you can't assume - especially without Bo - that we would have scored. If nothing else, it would have forced Clemson to use at least one timeout (and possibly both) and given them less time.

But hindsight is always 20/20 - and if Hurts had done that and then we fumbled the exchange and failed to score, the entire loss would be put on him.

But 81's pre-game assessment was in fact correct - we beat them last year with Coker throwing bombs. We were missing a critical weapon in the arsenal for a game like this. I don't 'blame' anybody for the loss. There's plenty to go around, but at some point you also have to salute their best players for exceeding outcomes of our best players.

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we would have gotten a 5-yard penalty for motion

RTR91 said:

Not just Eddie's coverage skills, but the overall chain reaction of it. Him on the field doesn't put Minkah at Safety, which helps with Renfrow out of the slot.

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Yeah - it was the domino theory proven correct. And I knew it at the ATM game, which is why I really didn't want Clemson.

Matt0424 said:

I didn't read the thread, just read one or two posts about how this defense wasn't to be thought of with 92, or 11 anymore. I'll say this, and don't care if I catch flack.

If 1992 Alabama was transported in time to play against Clemson in place of our current team, Clemson would beat them by 4 scores. They couldn't hang with Watson, and if Clemson ran 99 plays against them they'd get beat VERY bad.

We look back on that defense with a lot of fondness, but athletes today are way better. If you teleported 2016 team back to 1992 we'd go undefeated and not have a team within 30 points of us.

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The entire game is different.

To give some perspective: 1992 is as close to 1968 as it is to today. The 1992 team would have gone the entire 1968 season without giving up a single point given how different the game changed - they'd be lucky to hold teams below what 2010 Auburn's defense did nowadays.

selmaborntidefan said:

The entire game is different.

To give some perspective: 1992 is as close to 1968 as it is to today. The 1992 team would have gone the entire 1968 season without giving up a single point given how different the game changed - they'd be lucky to hold teams below what 2010 Auburn's defense did nowadays.

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Shh... People have their memories and are really fond of them.


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92tide said:

we would have gotten a 5-yard penalty for motion

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Cam Robinson always reliable for one.


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CrimsonProf said:

You're assuming that we could have just imposed our will and run it down their throats. With no threat of even a short range passing game, that wasn't happening.

At some point in the third quarter, I had one of those Kurt Russell in Tombstone, "Oh, hell," moments and realized that it was going to take a lot to get of there alive. It is what it is at this point but I'll never get over that officiating.


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Well we were. I'm not sure if the exact number but it was a few. 5-6 yards on first down. Pass incomplete 2nd. Pass on 3rd incomplete. Punt. Less than a minute and the defense has to trudge back out. I was just thinking at 2-15 on 3rd down I'm taking my chances on the ground. Even if there is a three and out the defense gets more rest. That has been our SOP. Opponents where out and Bama controls the 4th qtr. It's just an opinion is all.


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I looked it up. It was 7 drives way less than 2 minutes. That is why the defense played 55 plays in the second half alone.

Clemson also was brilliant on making the catch and play to take advantage. I take nothing away from them.

I can certainly get over this loss a lot easier than the OM game last year.

Always Bama and Crimson for life for life. Love these guys and can't wait for a beast mode signing day, over reaction after A-day , and a really neat schedule for 2017!

Roll Tide my Crimson brothers and sisters!!!


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selmaborntidefan said:

The entire game is different.

To give some perspective: 1992 is as close to 1968 as it is to today. The 1992 team would have gone the entire 1968 season without giving up a single point given how different the game changed - they'd be lucky to hold teams below what 2010 Auburn's defense did nowadays.

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STOP IT. You are making me feel really old. :wink:

So when kids who weren't born in 1992 hear us talking about that NC it's like me thinking about a time like 1968 before I was born. Were's the Geritol???

Not to disparage our loss, but last night an 18 year old young lady from our church died as a result of smoke inhalation...I had been her pastor since she was 3 years of age...she brought me Valentines every year...a wonderful, unique sparkling light. Keep her family and our church in your prayers...tough night.

Padreruf said:

Not to disparage our loss, but last night an 18 year old young lady from our church died as a result of smoke inhalation...I had been her pastor since she was 3 years of age...she brought me Valentines every year...a wonderful, unique sparkling light. Keep her family and our church in your prayers...tough night.

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sorry to hear that padre.

Padreruf said:

Not to disparage our loss, but last night an 18 year old young lady from our church died as a result of smoke inhalation...I had been her pastor since she was 3 years of age...she brought me Valentines every year...a wonderful, unique sparkling light. Keep her family and our church in your prayers...tough night.

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That certainly puts things in perspective. Prayers for her family. Sorry for your loss Padre.

"The sun will Come up tomorrow" and we'll win another NC. Bank on it!

What's the exact basis for the 1992 Defense not being as great as they were? You don't think they were as talented? Eric Curry, John Copeland, Jeremy Nunley, George Teague, Antonio Langham, Antonio London, Derrick Oden, Lemanski Hall, and Sam Shade were ALL NFL draft picks. Tommy Johnson and Willie Gaston were dang fine players too who were future All-SEC players.

You think if you take that whole 1992 defense and they were born 18-22 years ago and grew up with the same strength and conditioning programs and nutrition and private coaching and camps etc etc......that they wouldn't match up with today's Offenses? Please.

They had to face Two pretty dang stout College QB's back to back to end that year in 1992.

Shane Matthews was a beast. He was an All-American, 1st Team All SEC 3 years in a row, 2 Time SEC POY, Broke FLA's school passing record in yardage and was a Heisman Finalist. He threw for 9,287 yrds and 74 TD's in 3 years. Pretty much a 3,000 Yrd 25 TD per season kind of guy with a QBR of 137 We had a guy with similar career stats....AJ at 9,019 yrds and 77 TD's in 3 years starting.

Gino Torretta was basically a 2 year starter but also threw for 3,000 yrds per season and 20 TD's with a QB rating of 132. All-American Heisman winner. We laugh about that now because of what the 92 team did to him but BOTH Matthews and Torretta were legit college QB's.

In those back to back games the '92 defense gave up a combined 27 points and only 14 via Passing TD's

Shane averaged 298 Ypg (same as Watson) was 30-45 for 287 yrds 2 TD's and 2 INT's (1 Pick 6)
Gino averaged 278 Ypg and was 24-56 for 278 yrds 0 TD's and 3 INT's (2 Pick 6)

Watson averaged 298 yrds passing a game coming into the NCG. He was 36-56 for 420 yrds 3TD's and ZERO INT's ZERO.....he has thrown 30 INT's the last two seasons. No way....NO WAY the 1992 players would have been thrashed like that. No way they give up 35 points and 21 in the final quarter. No way that they don't make that ONE big play to save the day. Sorry I just don't believe that.

tusks_n_raider said:

What's the exact basis for the 1992 Defense not being as great as they were?

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Nobody said this, but I'll enter this into the category of "top ten straw men on the Internet."

What was said was - the 1992 defense played in a different time and completely different era and looking back as if they could have held Clemson to 10 points or less last night is preposterous on its face.


The leading passer yardage-wise in 1992 was Houston's Jimmy Klingler who passed for 3,818 yards. You've probably never heard of the guy, and most folks who have are confusing him with his older brother, David (who now has a PhD and is a minister - we attended Dallas Seminary at the same time).

There were nine quarterbacks this year who surpassed that total - including DeShaun Watson. Of course, the immediate comeback is going to be "they play more games now," but Houston played 11 games in 1992 and Texas Tech - whose QB led the nation with over 5,000 yards - only played 12 this year.

Charlie Ward, who was pretty much the DeShaun Watson of his day - a dual threat and in Ward's case he actually won the Heisman - passed for 2647 yards.


And (now everyone brace yourselves) should I point out that neither Shane Mathews NOR (especially?) Gino Torretta was a threat to run the ball if the coverage was blanket? Matthews rushed 195 times for minus 46 yards (these presumably include sack reductions). Gino Torretta rushed 110 times for 32 yards in a four-year career. Bill Oliver made no bones about the fact that our scheme is what won the 1993 Sugar Bowl - because film study showed that Miami ran 14 pass plays for every running play. Thus, we gambled that Miami wasn't even going to try and run on our 'run oriented SEC defense.'

The SEC's leading passer in 1992 was Shane Matthews, with 3,205 yards in 13 games. The SEC's leading passer in 2016 was Austin Allen (Arkansas), with 3,430 yards.....in 13 games. To give you an idea, Matthews played for a four-loss division winner and nearly beat Alabama in the SECCG while Allen lit up our defense for 30 points and threw five interceptions - and the game was never really all that close. Alabama also played Mike White (WKU) and Jake Browning (Washington, ranked 21st in passing yards) and did a great job containing both of them.

Nobody is daring suggest the 1992 defense was not the best of it's time. But the 1961 defense gave up fewer ppg. Does anyone seriously believe they're better than the 1992 defense? Of course not. One former player - I think it was Lee Roy Jordan - said that the early 60s Alabama defense was NOT fast by any means today - but it was the fastest of that time.

The simple truth is that we NEVER in 1992 faced a dual threat even remotely like DeShaun Watson. And let's not forget that the BIGGEST contributor to the success in the 93 Sugar Bowl was the offense holding onto the ball for about 36 minutes.

RTR91 said:

Shh... People have their memories and are really fond of them.


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Yeah, man, I wouldn't know anything that.

LOL!!!


(It reminds me of an old pastor who told me that he barely made his high school team but when he recalls it nowadays he needs to call them up and ask if they're going to retire his number).

BamaMoon said:

It was pretty obvious to almost everybody with half a brain that ND was a "paper tiger" that year. We exposed them early and often and Oh, how I loved every moment of it!!!

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You'll get no argument from me on that one. That being said - they were the only major unbeaten eligible so....

Matt0424 said:

I didn't read the thread, just read one or two posts about how this defense wasn't to be thought of with 92, or 11 anymore. I'll say this, and don't care if I catch flack.

If 1992 Alabama was transported in time to play against Clemson in place of our current team, Clemson would beat them by 4 scores. They couldn't hang with Watson, and if Clemson ran 99 plays against them they'd get beat VERY bad.

We look back on that defense with a lot of fondness, but athletes today are way better. If you teleported 2016 team back to 1992 we'd go undefeated and not have a team within 30 points of us.

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I won't go quite that far with hit, but it has certainly changed.

The biggest problem the 1992 defense would have if they played today is that the players from that team are all around 45-50 years old.