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  1. #27
    BamaNation All-SEC Special K's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    We'll see. I just have a hard time believing Hurts will not improve any. Most incoming freshman quarterbacks get an opportunity to sit for at least a year or more (most of time more), learn the academic/technical side of the game, get used to college life and the increased physical demands of D1/FBS football. I remember the few games AJ McCarron was able to play in the year before he became the starter. He didn't look too hot, then his first year of actually starting he had his struggles. And I believe he was a RS JR if I'm not mistaken. Granted, none of us have a crystal ball into the 2017 season. But just knowing how Hurts is wired and his pedigree (coach's son). I'd put my money on him making huge strides next season.
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I think it's JH's job to lose and if he makes even moderate improvement in the downfield passing game he will be the man. I certainly hope that's what happens. I'm just not ready to say he's locked in with no competition for the next 2-3 seasons. He'll get pushed and that's a good thing for the whole team.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Philbert was talking about "rub blocks" all night. I just listened on the radio, so just how often did Clemson run picks? I got the impression it was more than just the two TD's.

  4. #29
    BamaNation All-American CoastGhost's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    If we stop one slant or one screen on each of those drives, those two plays never happen. There was just not enough gas in the tank.

  5. #30

    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by CoastGhost View Post
    If we stop one slant or one screen on each of those drives, those two plays never happen. There was just not enough gas in the tank.
    You've posted this numerous times in various threads.

    You're pretty much saying "the officials' bad job is excused because you didn't tackle enough."


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  6. #31
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by JDCrimson View Post
    Jess are you or can you do some more analysis sort of summimg up the season and the future? LOL, I need more closure and some way to put this season in perspective.

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  7. #32
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    The critical aspect of these is WHO initiated the contact? The bigger onus is on the offensive player to avoid the contact since he knows the route he is running. They are not black and white and I bet you don't get full agreement on both calls last night. IMO with the benefit of the doubt I have a foul on the first one and no call on the second one. The reason on the second one is it appears the defender initiated the contact.
    If it's on or behind the LOS, either player can initiate and it's not going to get called (nor should it) because the receiver is technically not downfield and could just be setting up a WR screen. This is also an example of a corner "jamming" a receiver if the defense initiates the contact. If the ball is thrown behind the LOS, by rule it is not OPI.

    Defensively, there is usually a bit of a grace given where the corner has the opportunity to keep the receiver from making a move downfield. But once that move is made, the defender better release or he's probably going to get called for defensive holding (not necessarily PI).

    However, under no circumstances can a receiver release downfield and then begin blocking for a pass thrown beyond the LOS. This is offensive PI in all cases. Clemson's WR buried his head into the Alabama DB's chest and made no attempt, cursory or otherwise, to even pretend to be running a route.
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by trenda View Post
    Jess, thoughts on our running game last night? Averaged 6.5/carry. At least half of our RBs carries went for 4+.

    In a game where Hurts averaged 4.2 yds per pass attempt and the RBs averaged 5.6 per carry, shouldn't the RBs have gotten more touches?

    We had a 24-14 lead going into the fourth (albeit it was quickly 24-21), and only ran the ball 4 times. Really hard to sustain drives and eat clock when you only run it on 4 of your 16 offensive plays in the final quarter.

    We only had 3 first downs in the second half and all were from runs by RBs. Yet, we only gave them 8 carries the entire second half.


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    Possibly, but those per-carry averages include Scarbrough's big plays and he was no longer available. I don't think our coaches believed the two smaller backs would have much success against Clemson's DL, a reasonable assumption given the size Clemson brought off the edges. As we talked about in the pregame, you won't see a 4-3 team very often that starts a 310-pound weakside end.

    Clemson's run defense stiffed up significantly from about mid-second the the end of the third quarter. They made nice adjustments at the half and I don't think if Alabama had committed to doing nothing but running, that it would have been very successful. At best, it would have shortened the game a little. The inability to pass effectively was the killer. Against a front seven like Clemson's, Alabama wasn't simply going to line up and impose its will. Clemson was too good for that.
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  9. #34
    BamaNation All-American BamaBuc's Avatar
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by CoastGhost View Post
    If we stop one slant or one screen on each of those drives, those two plays never happen. There was just not enough gas in the tank.
    Being on the field for 100 play's kinda runs the tank down to EMPTY!
    With Bo gone, Clemson knew all they had to do was shut down Hurts running, 'cause he wasn't going to hurt them passing...
    Put that together with at least the two non-calls, defensive pass-interference, on Clemson's two td's, and wa-la you see what happens...
    Another great job by big-12 official's, wonder how much Stoops paid them...

  10. #35
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by JessN View Post
    If it's on or behind the LOS, either player can initiate and it's not going to get called (nor should it) because the receiver is technically not downfield and could just be setting up a WR screen. This is also an example of a corner "jamming" a receiver if the defense initiates the contact. If the ball is thrown behind the LOS, by rule it is not OPI.

    Defensively, there is usually a bit of a grace given where the corner has the opportunity to keep the receiver from making a move downfield. But once that move is made, the defender better release or he's probably going to get called for defensive holding (not necessarily PI).

    However, under no circumstances can a receiver release downfield and then begin blocking for a pass thrown beyond the LOS. This is offensive PI in all cases. Clemson's WR buried his head into the Alabama DB's chest and made no attempt, cursory or otherwise, to even pretend to be running a route.
    Everything you said is correct. If you felt the Clemson receiver initiated the contact then this would be OPI. I disagree with you though. And so do 100% of the college officials I talked to. The contact was initiated by the defender and then he actually held the receiver. Since the ball went to the other receiver there was no advantage gained so I would pass on the hold.

    The other TD should have been OPI in my opinion.

  11. #36
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamafan P.T. View Post
    Dabo agrees... except its defensive

    https://twitter.com/mcmurphyespn/sta...40805985161216

    Is he serious ??
    Even Rogers Redding said it was either defensive PI or a "tie," IOW, both players initiated contact. Which is utter nonsense and if even veteran referees cannot see what is blatant, then we are going to always be frustrated by this.

    It wasn't necessarily the difference in the game. Clemson pretty clearly outplayed Alabama, and deserved to win. But these two plays were without a doubt OPI. They were illegal. It's OK for Clemson (Dabo) to admit that. It doesn't take away from the fact that they won, and they are forever written in history as the 2016 National Champions. But no, he's a buffoon. Folks that want him here clearly don't pay attention to this, because this example here is only the tip of the iceberg.

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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyBison View Post
    Everything you said is correct. If you felt the Clemson receiver initiated the contact then this would be OPI. I disagree with you though. And so do 100% of the college officials I talked to. The contact was initiated by the defender and then he actually held the receiver. Since the ball went to the other receiver there was no advantage gained so I would pass on the hold.

    The other TD should have been OPI in my opinion.
    Nonsense. How anyone could believe this is beyond me. The WR runs into the defender. It did not happen the other way around.

  13. #38
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Just for comparison's sake - didn't Alabama get a TD called back early this football season because of a pick? Or maybe got a first down called back due to a pick? I want to say it was during one of the OOC games after the USC game.
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  14. #39
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    Re: Clemson wrap-up: Tide loses a heartbreaker on 2 controversial TDs

    Quote Originally Posted by RTR91 View Post
    You've posted this numerous times in various threads.

    You're pretty much saying "the officials' bad job is excused because you didn't tackle enough."


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    He is not excusing the refs. He is saying, if we make a tackle or two earlier in the possession, then Clemson is not in the position to run the pick play at the end and leave it up to a referee's call. The pick play is a 50/50 call...sometimes the refs call it and sometimes they don't.

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