Defense Wins Championships, But Not this Time

RTR91

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Snarky as it is, this is truth here. The staff thought they could teach Hurts in season how to be a quarterback. Whatever his talent or ceiling may be, whatever his composure and maturity, the fact is he was not ready. A dual threat QB has to also be a game manager first. Someone else posted in another thread that Hurts' development may have been stunted instead of advanced by being made the starter too soon.
Firmly believe some of this goes to Kiffin not properly developing Jalen as the season progressed.

We are not is disagreement. You illustrate the point perfectly. The only way this brand of football wins championships is when you have a DW or CN.

On the other hand QBs like GM, AJM and JC can manage their way to NCs otherwise.
Because Greg did so much in the title game?
 

LA4Bama

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Firmly believe some of this goes to Kiffin not properly developing Jalen as the season progressed.
this is possible but in the two previous years kiffin was developing first year starters who were 5th year seniors. The basic mechanics and knowledge of the game were already in place. Jalen was being asked to learn everything at once. I certainly do place responsibility on the staff but it's not clear what kiffen could have done.
 

BamaMoon

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Because Greg did so much in the title game?
We wouldn't have got there without GM throwing that TD pass at the end of the Auburn game. Or what about that pass to the tight end against Florida in the SECCG.

I'm not down on Jalen Hurts, personally. Didn't even mention him in the OP.

But if I believe with GMac or AJM or JC and a committed effort to run the ball and convert on 3rd and short with qbs like that we win #17 last night.

Don't you?
 

B1GTide

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We wouldn't have got there without GM throwing that TD pass at the end of the Auburn game. Or what about that pass to the tight end against Florida in the SECCG.

I'm not down on Jalen Hurts, personally. Didn't even mention him in the OP.

But if I believe with GMac or AJM or JC and a committed effort to run the ball and convert on 3rd and short with qbs like that we win #17 last night.

Don't you?
Yes, you win last night with a capable passer .
 

RTR91

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Nov 23, 2007
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We wouldn't have got there without GM throwing that TD pass at the end of the Auburn game. Or what about that pass to the tight end against Florida in the SECCG.

I'm not down on Jalen Hurts, personally. Didn't even mention him in the OP.

But if I believe with GMac or AJM or JC and a committed effort to run the ball and convert on 3rd and short with qbs like that we win #17 last night.

Don't you?
Is this serious?

You mention of the Iron Bowl TD warrants bringing up what all Jalen did this year in the regular season.

Think Greg brings us back in Oxford?

Or does what Jalen did to Tennessee?

Or in Baton Rouge?

And with the inconsistencies on the interior of the OL this year, no I'm not sure it matters who the QB is. Remember 4th and 1 in the 2013 Iron Bowl with AJ at QB? How'd that work out?
 

Loam

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If Offense won Championships and was that important, the Big 12 would have 1-2 teams in the Playoff every single year.
 

BamaMoon

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Is this serious?

You mention of the Iron Bowl TD warrants bringing up what all Jalen did this year in the regular season.

Think Greg brings us back in Oxford?

Or does what Jalen did to Tennessee?

Or in Baton Rouge?

And with the inconsistencies on the interior of the OL this year, no I'm not sure it matters who the QB is. Remember 4th and 1 in the 2013 Iron Bowl with AJ at QB? How'd that work out?
I've got tons of respect for JH. Had a great year.

But the obvious thing is we couldn't pass for a first down on 3rd down.
 

RTR91

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I've got tons of respect for JH. Had a great year.

But the obvious thing is we couldn't pass for a first down on 3rd down.
Of course, we couldn't. We had a total of 15 third downs. We had 8 third downs with 10+ yards to go. We had four more with 5+ yards to go. That's 75% of our third downs on the night.
 

Power Eye

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You are putting the loss all on the offense, and that isn't fair or accurate. Clemson ran 44 plays in the first half, before you got tired on defense. But to answer your question, another year of poor passing like this and you can say goodbye to any great receiver recruits. Guys like Ridley and Cooper want to play on Sundays and that won't happen playing in this kind of offense without more down field passing.
That is correct, but we only gave up 7 points over the course of those 44 plays. We lost the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when our offense could not move the chains, or capitalize on turnovers. No matter how dominant a defense has been all season, you can't expect them to be able to be as dominant against Watson and that Clemson offense after they have been on the field as much as they were. On top of that, Clemson made a couple of great plays on that last drive where you just have to tip you cap to them.

As for the offense, we couldn't move the ball consistently because we are not an effective passing team. I think that's been pretty well established. In my opinion, the bootlegs by Hurts are a waste of a play. However, I'm not going to point the finger at a true freshman QB, nor will I at an OC who's been on the job for a week. Bottom line is that we lost a game to perhaps the best team Alabama has played since 2010 Auburn or 2009 Florida.

As for Hurts' status as our QB going forward, I can't fathom a situation where he isn't our starter for at least the next 2 years outside of injury. Players with the combination of his physical ability, calmness, and intelligence don't come along often. He will get better as a passer purely because he is too smart of a player not too, and he won't just rely on his physical abilities. I remember watching Watson against GA Tech his freshman year when he got hurt and thinking how raw he was.
 

bamaltc

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I've got tons of respect for JH. Had a great year.

But the obvious thing is we couldn't pass for a first down on 3rd down.
Yes, and three of those times, Jalen was right on the money -- and our receivers dropped the ball. Two turnovers, two false starts on 1st down. Poor execution all around. Change any one or two of those things and the outcome might have been different. Make one of those first downs, we eat more clock and the defense gets rest. Have no false start when it's 1st down at their 15, and we may come away with 7 instead of three. Have no false starts at all on those plays and we get two additional scores. So IMO Jalen was NOT our problem last night.
 

BamaMoon

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Of course, we couldn't. We had a total of 15 third downs. We had 8 third downs with 10+ yards to go. We had four more with 5+ yards to go. That's 75% of our third downs on the night.
You are correct. But it is also true that what led to 3rd and long so often was an incomplete pass on first down that got us behind the chains.

Perhaps more running on 1st down would have helped, but at some point you to complete some 5-10 yard passes to move the chains.
 

RTR91

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You are correct. But it is also true that what led to 3rd and long so often was an incomplete pass on first down that got us behind the chains.

Perhaps more running on 1st down would have helped, but at some point you to complete some 5-10 yard passes to move the chains.
Went back and looked at the first down play before the third down plays (not the first play of the drive, but the first play in that series).

Of the 15, four were pass plays, nine were rushes, and two were rush plays after Cam's false starts.
 

BigOaf

Scout Team
Oct 1, 2005
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My biggest frustration is not making an effort to shorten the game once we had a lead by running the ball. We ran the ball 34 times for 6.5 yds/carry. Clemson ran the ball 42 times for 2.2 yds/carry. Their willingness to work towards third and short for easier conversions paid off and gassed our defense.

Also, I'm struggling to understand why so many think we weren't going to be able to run the ball unless Bo was carrying it. Harris had 5 carries @ 4.8 yds/carry, Jacobs had 2 carries for 8.0 yds/carry. I love what Bo brings to the table but he's not the only running back we have.
 

tideindc

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I think credit must be given to the incredible performance of the Clemson receivers. Renfrow caught every crucial low throw...Williams made amazingly difficult catches in traffic, as did Leggit. Every other team we played this year..the receivers dropped a high percentage of of similar balls . Don't know if they are always that good..but they elevated their performances on the big stage..don't think anyone on Bama's offense elevated their game other than maybe Bo. Great offense can beat great defense, and that was a great display.

I also think our passing game is garbage...this is not just a swipe at Jalen, as I said "passing game". This includes the coaching, O line and receivers. In the final few games, we seemed to abandon any semblance of creativity, motion, whatever. Not smart enough to know why..but it seemed our stud receivers were never open, or if they were Jalen was unable to connect. Also a bit disappointed in Deiter...expected a Mullaney year out of him, which didn't happen.

The D was gassed a lot...we did score a bunch of points, but most came on big plays, not the sustained drives we have had in the past.

Jalen played as well as any 18 yr old possibly could have...love everything he did for us. Its not his fault he was put in the position of facing Clemson in the title game at such a young age..its on the staff for not having anyone better . He has the arm, the calmness and athletic ability...let's hope he can actually become a solid passer next year.
 

BamaMoon

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Went back and looked at the first down play before the third down plays (not the first play of the drive, but the first play in that series).

Of the 15, four were pass plays, nine were rushes, and two were rush plays after Cam's false starts.
When we had 1st and 15 and ran the ball we were then in 2nd a long most of the time. I'm looking at the big picture and you're looking at more details (which is cool) but our lack of passing ability is the overall concern I have moving forward.

JD said it in another post, but unless JH develops and/or we really have an eye for recruiting elite dual threat guys, this direction puts a greater emphasis on one player (the qb) instead of having a "good/average" drop back guy who has the ability to get the ball down the field to playmakers and, in doing so, opens up the running game even more.

IN other words, it put more pressure on just one player to make a difference rather than having a bunch of players to make a difference.

JMHO.
 
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TIDE24

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The issues we had last night were the question marks we had going into the season. QB/OL/ front 7 depth (compared to last year) and secondary. Against most teams all year they were not issues because we were just superior to everyone else. But last night against an elite team these were issues that hampered us. I am not bashing any of these groups because they are better than most in the game, but when it came to be the best they came up just short. We knew going into the year we had an inexperienced QB (whoever it would be) and he was great, just not as good as #4. The OL was good, but there was some holes to fill and we had an injury that was we had trouble filling the rest of the season. We knew the front 7 was as good or better than last but maybe not as deep. Clemson exploited that last night. I think the our secondary is pretty darn good, but with some of the defections over the summer we had no depth. Again, not an issue against most teams we played, but Clemson took advantage of it. Losing EJ (and hamilton) but especially EJ out of the secondary was an issue last night.

I am disappointed, but hoping this team can come back hungrier with something to prove next season. I bet it is not the outcome Jimbo was hoping for.
 

crimsonaudio

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You are putting the loss all on the offense, and that isn't fair or accurate. Clemson ran 44 plays in the first half, before you got tired on defense.
Exactly, and they scored a whopping 7 points. had the defense not been worn down due to the offense's inability to run some clock, they wouldn't have scored 28 in the second half (21 in the 4th alone) - the defense was completely gassed in the 4th Q because the offense couldn't simply run some clock.
 

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