Defense Wins Championships, But Not this Time

BamaMoon

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Exactly, and they scored a whopping 7 points. had the defense not been worn down due to the offense's inability to run some clock, they wouldn't have scored 28 in the second half (21 in the 4th alone) - the defense was completely gassed in the 4th Q because the offense couldn't simply run some clock.
Those are the facts. The question is, what do we do to fix that next year?
 

crimsonaudio

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Those are the facts. The question is, what do we do to fix that next year?
If we had even the shadow of a passing game, Bama wins last night. Something happened to Jalen throughout the season and he really did regress - was is coaching, staff pressuring him to not make a mistake, or his own mental regression? Doubt we'll ever know for certain. The man can throw the ball - just look at his HS videos - strike after strike in perfect stride.

Hopefully Sark can help him open things up and settle in...
 

RTR91

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When we had 1st and 15 and ran the ball we were then in 2nd a long most of the time. I'm looking at the big picture and you're looking at more details (which is cool) but our lack of passing ability is the overall concern I have moving forward.

JD said it in another post, but unless JH develops and/or we really have an eye for recruiting elite dual threat guys, this direction puts a greater emphasis on one player (the qb) instead of having a "good/average" drop back guy who has the ability to get the ball down the field to playmakers and, in doing so, opens up the running game even more.

IN other words, it put more pressure on just one player to make a difference rather than having a bunch of players to make a difference.

JMHO.
Oh. I was just commenting on your post suggesting we threw the ball more on first down, which led to third and long.

You are correct. But it is also true that what led to 3rd and long so often was an incomplete pass on first down that got us behind the chains.


Perhaps more running on 1st down would have helped, but at some point you to complete some 5-10 yard passes to move the chains.
 

Bazza

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Exactly, and they scored a whopping 7 points. had the defense not been worn down due to the offense's inability to run some clock, they wouldn't have scored 28 in the second half (21 in the 4th alone) - the defense was completely gassed in the 4th Q because the offense couldn't simply run some clock.

Seen that movie before.....
 

CB4

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Time of possession was basically 35-25 in favor of Clemson. Using their passing game when they couldn't run it to control the clock and convert, combined with our poor performance in converting on offense on 3rd down is what won the day for Clemson. And you must tip you hat to Watson for that. He remained poised in the face of a lot of punishment dealt to him early in this game. Using their passing game they were able to do what we've done to opponents for years to win; wear the opponent down.

I think most of us knew throughout the season that the "Achilles Heel" for us was consistency in the intermediate and deep passing game. You began to see it as early as the LSU game. Yet our defense was always able to pick up the slack. It is not enough to just "throw it deep" every now and again. It must pose a threat. The two deep throws last night (one to Ridley, one to Stewart) were over thrown so badly the receivers didn't even get an opportunity to make a play on the ball. The "back seven" for Clemson were never threaten by it. And, if I'm not mistaken, Clemson let the ACC in defensive holding and PI penalties this year.

And I am by no means bashing Jalen. The kid played far above my expectations as a true freshman. That being said, we have to give Jalen the opportunity to be successful downfield, from the pocket. I understand the boot/rolls to put pressure on the corners, but at the same time you take half the field away from him. No question that Jalen has the arm talent. It boils down to experience and trust. I think it was hammered into his head so much "don't take chances, throw it away" that if a receiver wasn't running ten yards open, he tucked it or threw it away. And it is a great strategy when when you don't need to take chances. It can be problematic when you do. I think much of this coaching and player development. It was enough to get us to the final game, but not enough to win it.

Still the sun came up this morning and the future is still bright. RTR
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Today's style of football is it's a quarterback driven game. Plain and simple. The rules are bent toward toward throwing the ball. The lack of solid quarterback play last night did us in. No way any defense can be expected to be out there that long, that many times and win a ball game. Not in today's game, not by today's rules. For the record, I don't blame Jalen one bit. He is what he is. An 18 year old TRUE FRESHMAN that played out of his mind considering his age, lack of experience and level of competition he faced.
 

teamplayer

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Today's style of football is it's a quarterback driven game. Plain and simple. The rules are bent toward toward throwing the ball. The lack of solid quarterback play last night did us in. No way any defense can be expected to be out there that long, that many times and win a ball game. Not in today's game, not by today's rules. For the record, I don't blame Jalen one bit. He is what he is. An 18 year old TRUE FRESHMAN that played out of his mind considering his age, lack of experience and level of competition he faced.
You are absolutely correct about today's game. It has shifted to where everything is designed to help the offense. Our defense was very good this year, but playing 99 plays is like playing two games almost. We had 30 fewer plays, and we still nearly won. A few more first downs and extended drives would have helped even out the number of plays and given our defense some rest, which would probably given us a two score win. Well, we can't win them all, but we sure have won most of them lately.
 

Bamabuzzard

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You are absolutely correct about today's game. It has shifted to where everything is designed to help the offense. Our defense was very good this year, but playing 99 plays is like playing two games almost. We had 30 fewer plays, and we still nearly won. A few more first downs and extended drives would have helped even out the number of plays and given our defense some rest, which would probably given us a two score win. Well, we can't win them all, but we sure have won most of them lately.
And the reason they had 99 plays put on them is because of our inability to pass the ball. If we could have put together any consistent form of a passing game this game would have been over in the first half. But due to our inability to pass the ball Clemson stacked the line and we had to punt a lot.
 

Alasippi

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And the reason they had 99 plays put on them is because of our inability to pass the ball. If we could have put together any consistent form of a passing game this game would have been over in the first half. But due to our inability to pass the ball Clemson stacked the line and we had to punt a lot.
That and "this". I was listening to Holly Rowe of ESPN yesterday. She was the sideline reporter on the Bama sideline and was assigned to cover Bama practices. She said, pregame, that the only real difference she saw between Kiffin and Sark was that Sark called the plays in and ran the plays a whole lot faster or in a lot more hurry up fashion than Kiffin.
Kiffin was actually complained about horribly after the Washington game because, even though he runs a no huddle offense, he would milk the clock by waiting til the last second to send in the final play and snap the ball. It actually caused a couple of delay of game penalties.
But in reality, he helped our defense, because by doing so because he kept them off the field more and gave them more rest time.
It'll all come together but this game was honestly kind of a cluster.
I think Coach Saban should take the philosophy that if you take another job you pack your bags and leave asap.
Kiffin leaving like he did hurt us.
 

4Q Basket Case

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That and "this". I was listening to Holly Rowe of ESPN yesterday. She was the sideline reporter on the Bama sideline and was assigned to cover Bama practices. She said, pregame, that the only real difference she saw between Kiffin and Sark was that Sark called the plays in and ran the plays a whole lot faster or in a lot more hurry up fashion than Kiffin.
Kiffin was actually complained about horribly after the Washington game because, even though he runs a no huddle offense, he would milk the clock by waiting til the last second to send in the final play and snap the ball. It actually caused a couple of delay of game penalties.
But in reality, he helped our defense, because by doing so because he kept them off the field more and gave them more rest time.
It'll all come together but this game was honestly kind of a cluster.
I think Coach Saban should take the philosophy that if you take another job you pack your bags and leave asap.
Kiffin leaving like he did hurt us.
I agree 100% with the first bolded sentence. On the second, I technically agree, but for reasons different from what many think.

I do think Saban wishes he could turn the clock back to the day after the SECCG. If he had known then what he knows now, I have no doubt that he'd make a different decision regarding Kiffin.

Kiffin checked out mentally after the SECCG. I don't know exactly why, but could speculate on several plausible scenarios.

In ATL for the semi-final, my sources say he stepped way over the line, though I can't say how. I also won't say who told me, and I wouldn't supply a link, even if one existed...and it does not. You'll just have to believe me or not, as your assessment of my record here on TF dictates.

If even half of what I've been told is accurate, Kiffin essentially fired himself, and left Saban with no other options.

While Lane Kiffin had an incredibly effective run as a QB coach, all indications from a lot of places are that he was an embarrassment waiting to happen. Those behaviors finally started to directly affect the team, and from that point, Saban's decision was easy.

All that to say: If the Lane Kiffin of January 2017 had borne any resemblance to the Lane Kiffin of November 2016, I would agree that his departure hurt. But it didn't. And I firmly believe that the decision, under the circumstances as they existed on 1/1/2017, was the right one, for both the short term (i.e., the CFPCG) and the long run.
 
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JDCrimson

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Yes, you win last night with a capable passer .
You know for what we needed to do last night which was the bare minimum in our passing game, i saw enough composure in Bateman in the MSU game that I think he could have given us some quality snaps and made some throws.

I have sort of wondered if we would have benefited from a 2 QB rotation in the quarter of the season.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 

JDCrimson

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I posted it another thread somewhere but literally 1 more first down for and we win. I think also what we were missing last night is a script of plays for when you absolutely have to have a first down.

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jef0071

Suspended
Dec 19, 2005
511
0
0
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It seems silly to say that defense doesn't win championships. It just wasn't ours last night.

For all the somewhat legitimate complaints of the curious interpretation of the passing laws of the game, we should give their defense some credit. After they settled down, they really played good football and mostly got the stops when they needed. Yes some of that was self inflicted with penalties and drops, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum.
stopping our offense isnt that difficult though...a lot of times, we stop our selves
 

jef0071

Suspended
Dec 19, 2005
511
0
0
52
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Is this serious?

You mention of the Iron Bowl TD warrants bringing up what all Jalen did this year in the regular season.

Think Greg brings us back in Oxford?

Or does what Jalen did to Tennessee?

Or in Baton Rouge?

And with the inconsistencies on the interior of the OL this year, no I'm not sure it matters who the QB is. Remember 4th and 1 in the 2013 Iron Bowl with AJ at QB? How'd that work out?
if we had Greg McElroy, I dont think we woulda been in them situations to begin with. this team has too much offensive talent to be as inept as it was/became.
 

jef0071

Suspended
Dec 19, 2005
511
0
0
52
Hewitt, Texas, United States
Yes, and three of those times, Jalen was right on the money -- and our receivers dropped the ball. Two turnovers, two false starts on 1st down. Poor execution all around. Change any one or two of those things and the outcome might have been different. Make one of those first downs, we eat more clock and the defense gets rest. Have no false start when it's 1st down at their 15, and we may come away with 7 instead of three. Have no false starts at all on those plays and we get two additional scores. So IMO Jalen was NOT our problem last night.
not completely his fault. but he was a part of it
 

smith5753

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Sep 12, 2010
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I think we disagree on the meaning of "threat."

Last night, Jalen was 13 of 31 for 131 yards, one TD and a QBR of 25.2

Against UW, 7 of 14 for 57, no TDs, and a QBR of 13.8

Against Florida, 11 of 20 for 138, 1 TD, and a QBR of 31.6

Jalen is perhaps destined to be a dual threat QB. Today, he is one in name only. We all hope that changes by September...




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My gosh, it's even uglier on paper than it was in real life. I started seriously worrying this season leading up to lsu. I had a feeling that somebody would shut down our run game and force Jalen to beat them with his arm. I think we're lucky to have come within one second of an undefeated season. If the sec was stronger we could have just as easily dropped 2-3 games in conference play. With the talent we lose on defense, if our offense can't carry us through some games next season, it could be a tough year. We're in a tough position ending and starting with the acc's best two teams. I think this will be our toughest start to the season under coach Saban
 

LA4Bama

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I posted it another thread somewhere but literally 1 more first down for and we win. I think also what we were missing last night is a script of plays for when you absolutely have to have a first down.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
That would be ironic since Sark's analyst job was to prep third down plays.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
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Bottom line is that we really got beat at our on game.

We speeded up the game going no huddle (same as before but not milking the clock down like Kiffin often would to the very end), but then we couldn't make first downs (think I saw we had 8 or 9 straight possessions of only around 2 minutes each) and so we put our defense back on the field over and over.

In the fourth quarter, after slowing down their offense most of the game, we got tired and they exploited that.

We got beat at our own game.
 

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