Defense Wins Championships, But Not this Time

BamaMoon

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First, after sleeping on it, I'm at peace with the game. For the first time in my life when Bama was playing for the opporutunity to be champs, we actually lost. Since the late 70's Bama is something like 7-1 in "title games." Not bad.

But to the point of the thread. We know defense wins championships, but that's ony true when the offense does it part. It's ironic that in a season when we probably were as good or better than any Bama defense I've ever seen, we ultimately lost it all because we couldn't produce on offense.


1. We couldn't convert 3rd downs and grind the clock. In this game, that was the ultimate issue. We actually scored enough points to win, typically, but not against DW and this Clemson team.

2. We couldn't keep the defense off balance by being able to run and pass. All game they were jumping the short routes knowing we couldn't do anything else and they were loading the box daring us to pass.

3. As a result, our dynamic receivers (with the exception of OJ's long TD) were reduced to nothing. Stewarts biggest impact play was a pass, ironically. Ridley was basically not a factor. This will go down as the biggest waste of talent at Bama in any unit I can remember.

4. For a failure to do #1, we let their offense run 99 plays and we were gassed. Ironically, they did to our defense, what we usually do to defenses.

5. And my biggest fear is this. In choosing to go this philisophical route of dual threat qbs, we will be at the mercy of the limitations of his passing skills. The inability to complete downfield passes may put us back in this position again.

So, let the debate begin, has CNS set sail on sea of Dual-Threat QBS to never look back OR was this a pretty successful trip that ultimately fell a few plays short that will cause us to return to our traditional roots???
 

techster79

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I've got to believe our 18yr old true frosh has not hit his ceiling yet. Losing Bo hurt on being able to chew clock. One or two plays go our way and it's a different ball game (Ryan Anderson runs back a pick 6 instead of getting 3, or the refs call clemson on their illegal pick). The real question is this the beginning of the end of the dynasty or just the middle?
 

B1GTide

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Apr 13, 2012
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You are putting the loss all on the offense, and that isn't fair or accurate. Clemson ran 44 plays in the first half, before you got tired on defense. But to answer your question, another year of poor passing like this and you can say goodbye to any great receiver recruits. Guys like Ridley and Cooper want to play on Sundays and that won't happen playing in this kind of offense without more down field passing.
 
I've got to believe our 18yr old true frosh has not hit his ceiling yet. Losing Bo hurt on being able to chew clock. One or two plays go our way and it's a different ball game (Ryan Anderson runs back a pick 6 instead of getting 3, or the refs call clemson on their illegal pick). The real question is this the beginning of the end of the dynasty or just the middle?
Middle. You're right. Clemson made the right plays but also benefited from refs swallowing whistles all night long.


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BamaMoon

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You are putting the loss all on the offense, and that isn't fair or accurate. Clemson ran 44 plays in the first half, before you got tired on defense. But to answer your question, another year of poor passing like this and you can say goodbye to any great receiver recruits. Guys like Ridley and Cooper want to play on Sundays and that won't happen playing in this kind of offense without more down field passing.
I don't know where else you pin the loss unless it is a failure of the offense to stay on the field and make some first downs and grind some clock.
 

B1GTide

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I don't know where else you pin the loss unless it is a failure of the offense to stay on the field and make some first downs and grind some clock.
The defense for not getting off of the field? 3 and outs also equal more rest and fewer plays defended. The defense only held Clemson to two 3 and outs all night.
 

BamaMoon

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We didn't have a dual threat QB this year. That's the issue. Had we, we'd have won the game.

I'm not saying Jalen can't become one; just that he isn't yet...
Semantics. Per the definition, that's exactly what he is. But it only works at the highest level when the QB can run and pass.
 

bamaslaw

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Jan 16, 2005
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It seems silly to say that defense doesn't win championships. It just wasn't ours last night.

For all the somewhat legitimate complaints of the curious interpretation of the passing laws of the game, we should give their defense some credit. After they settled down, they really played good football and mostly got the stops when they needed. Yes some of that was self inflicted with penalties and drops, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum.
 

BamaMoon

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The defense for not getting off of the field? 3 and outs also equal more rest and fewer plays defended. The defense only held Clemson to two 3 and outs all night.
Sorry, the defense did their part. You don't defend a team like that by letting them run 99 plays.

That's almost enough plays for 2 games for some of our opponents.
 

gtgilbert

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Sorry, the defense did their part. You don't defend a team like that by letting them run 99 plays.

That's almost enough plays for 2 games for some of our opponents.
TheRemember was a glaring issue on our defense we didn't get corrected and that was the coverage on their inside slot receivers. Clemson found something good they could exploit going after our scheme there and we never adjusted to correct it. That's what killed us so while theyou played hard and with Max effort, Pruitt got out coached or we got out executed on these matchups, even though we won most of the other matchups...
 

B1GTide

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Sorry, the defense did their part. You don't defend a team like that by letting them run 99 plays.

That's almost enough plays for 2 games for some of our opponents.
I'm not blaming the defense, just not giving them a pass. I'm sure that they feel the same way. They could have played better.
 

BamaMoon

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TheRemember was a glaring issue on our defense we didn't get corrected and that was the coverage on their inside slot receivers. Clemson found something good they could exploit going after our scheme there and we never adjusted to correct it. That's what killed us so while theyou played hard and with Max effort, Pruitt got out coached or we got out executed on these matchups, even though we won most of the other matchups...
That was a problem. Jess spoke of this in his breakdown, but Renfroe is a possesion type receiver and it would have helped if Minkah could have covered him. But the problem with adjusting to those routes is when you jump them you open up downfield and in DW's case, he could hit those throws to hurt us even more. Sometimes you just have to tip your hat when a QB and Receiver can do that.

I'm not blaming the defense, just not giving them a pass. I'm sure that they feel the same way. They could have played better.
I'm sure they do too. The point is not that the defense could not have played better. You could say that after any game. But Clemson doesn't run 99 plays without wearing our guys down (which they did as part of their game plan) and making some big plays (which they did).
 

Isaiah 63:1

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Probably at 35k or in an airport somewhere
Semantics. Per the definition, that's exactly what he is. But it only works at the highest level when the QB can run and pass.
I think we disagree on the meaning of "threat."

Last night, Jalen was 13 of 31 for 131 yards, one TD and a QBR of 25.2

Against UW, 7 of 14 for 57, no TDs, and a QBR of 13.8

Against Florida, 11 of 20 for 138, 1 TD, and a QBR of 31.6

Jalen is perhaps destined to be a dual threat QB. Today, he is one in name only. We all hope that changes by September...




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LA4Bama

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We didn't have a dual threat QB this year. That's the issue. Had we, we'd have won the game.

I'm not saying Jalen can't become one; just that he isn't yet...
Snarky as it is, this is truth here. The staff thought they could teach Hurts in season how to be a quarterback. Whatever his talent or ceiling may be, whatever his composure and maturity, the fact is he was not ready. A dual threat QB has to also be a game manager first. Someone else posted in another thread that Hurts' development may have been stunted instead of advanced by being made the starter too soon.
 

BamaMoon

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I think we disagree on the meaning of "threat."

Last night, Jalen was 13 of 31 for 131 yards, one TD and a QBR of 25.2

Against UW, 7 of 14 for 57, no TDs, and a QBR of 13.8

Against Florida, 11 of 20 for 138, 1 TD, and a QBR of 31.6

Jalen is perhaps destined to be a dual threat QB. Today, he is one in name only. We all hope that changes by September...




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We are not is disagreement. You illustrate the point perfectly. The only way this brand of football wins championships is when you have a DW or CN.

On the other hand QBs like GM, AJM and JC can manage their way to NCs otherwise.
 

Go Bama

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I thought Bama played as good as they could. Jalen missed some passes but he's done that all year. The defense played extremely well but got gassed and slashed at the end of the game.

Clemson was a matchup problem for Bama. Williams cannot be defended so he's going to get his. DW spread the ball well while taking a beating. Clemson dominated the game from the middle of the second quarter on, they were the better team. If they played the game again in two weeks, I'd expect Clemson to win. Our team is not built to win a shootout.
 

MattinBama

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It also did us no favors not having a solid backup QB that you could rotate in for a possible spark in the passing game. I'm not sure either of the guys that left would have been able to produce that but it is what it is.
 

bamamc1

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Snarky as it is, this is truth here. The staff thought they could teach Hurts in season how to be a quarterback. Whatever his talent or ceiling may be, whatever his composure and maturity, the fact is he was not ready. A dual threat QB has to also be a game manager first. Someone else posted in another thread that Hurts' development may have been stunted instead of advanced by being made the starter too soon.
Obviously we have not been able to develop QB's because we had cornwell and bateman riding the pine and they've been in the system for 3 years.
 

PA Tide Fan

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I think defense still does win championships most of the time. Unfortunately some officials let the offenses get away with too much. When holding and pick plays aren't called it negates some advantages the defense had.
 

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