Saban is Right - Games are Decided by One or Two Plays

theballguy

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I thought two things would have given us a win:

- Ryan Anderson taking that one to the house.
- We run the ball on 3 downs with our series at about 7 minutes left. Would have taken off at the very least 1:30 at that point. No time for a comeback and the wrong timeframe for Clemson to use timeouts. If we could have gotten a first down out of that one, the win would have been ensured without a doubt.
 

Tidewater

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2. Ryan Anderson's second half fumble recovery

If Renfrow doesn't hustle back and tackle Ryan at the 16, we have another NOT. The momentum is completely on Alabama's side, and the Clemson offense begins to get flustered. Instead, Alabama gets the ball and quickly gets a false start and ends up settling for a FG. Clemson being an emotional team gained confidence by their defense holding the offense to 3 points instead of 7.
I commented about that false start at the time and Mrs. Tidewater got ticked at me for being so critical of a Bama player and left to watch the game in another room. I just find false start penalties to be sins of gross indiscipline. I can tolerate a player who lacks ability if he is trying his best and just lacks the physical ability (like a shortish DB trying to cover a taller receiver), but a false start penalties to me just screams "I cannot discipline myself to move when Im supposed to move, consequences be darned." Anyway, instead of a NOT, we start that "drive" 1st and 15 and settle for a FG (which was kicked on a 4th and four yards to gain, so without the false start, the catch on 3rd down would have been a new set of downs).
Heads-up, "good hustle" play by Renfrow and then a grossly indisciplined play cost Bama 4 points. Remind me again, what was the margin of victory?
And no, I'm not laying it all on that one player, Bama had chances later to redeem those lost points, but that play illustrates what CNS was saying.
 
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IndyBison

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Did the PI call that set them up at the 2 actually happen in the end zone?
sure looked to me like it happened around the 3 yard line.
shouldn't that have been half the distance to the goal rather than the 2 or did the 15 yards place it at the two?
I seem to recall the ref saying that since it occurred in the end zone, it was by rule placed at the two.
DPI is an exception to the half the distance enforcement. It's a spot enforcement if less than 15 yards. If the foul is inside the 2 it's spotted at the 2. They incorrectly announced it was in the end zone since the flag was at the 1 but the enforcement was correct either way.

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CrimsonEyeshade

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As part of the grieving process, I watched the first half last night and was reminded how much we physically dominated both sides of the ball for most of the first and second quarters.

That said, the biggest take-away was not our mistakes. It was how many times the Clemson defense knew what we were planning to do, and had a legion of tacklers breaking at the snap directly to where we wanted to go.

Jalen and/or our new OC were unwilling or unable to audible. Clemson, particularly in the second half, had no such problems.
 

BamaMoon

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I thought two things would have given us a win:

- Ryan Anderson taking that one to the house.
- We run the ball on 3 downs with our series at about 7 minutes left. Would have taken off at the very least 1:30 at that point. No time for a comeback and the wrong timeframe for Clemson to use timeouts. If we could have gotten a first down out of that one, the win would have been ensured without a doubt.
I mentioned your point about the 7 minute mark in another thread, but I agree too. In times past, we would have committed to run the ball in that circumstance and, like you said, if we make a couple of first downs there, there isn't time for them to come back.
 

BamaMoon

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As part of the grieving process, I watched the first half last night and was reminded how much we physically dominated both sides of the ball for most of the first and second quarters.

That said, the biggest take-away was not our mistakes. It was how many times the Clemson defense knew what we were planning to do, and had a legion of tacklers breaking at the snap directly to where we wanted to go.

Jalen and/or our new OC were unwilling or unable to audible. Clemson, particularly in the second half, had no such problems.
This puzzled me too.

Only thing I can figure is the SS was not as good in this game of backing out of a play and changing it when he saw their defensive alignment. This might have been the lack of communication that some feared with him taking over so suddenly. OR, he could have been him being a little rusty as a playcaller.

At any rate, that's one reason we would often bleed the playclock down to nothing under Kiffin while he would signal in an audible. It seemed in this game we just ran the play we'd called into what they knew was coming and were prepared for.
 

cuda.1973

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Forgive me for being late to the party, as this is the first time I have been back here. (With the exception of some BB threads.) So, not knowing all that has been said, written, analyzed and all that stuff, here is my convoluted take on the 2 plays that made a difference. (This will be in blue font, for those of you who do not see blue.

The 2 plays were the 2 3rd down conversions that we made. That put us at 2-15. Had we not made them, and went 0-15, there is not one person here that would have said "Yeah...............ok, we still got this. We can hold them. The D has it. So what if Clemson runs over 100 plays.? We got the D. We can still win this."

OK..............not in blue, now.

How many times has CNS said the worst thing that can happen is that a team plays poorly and still wins? How can you get players to understand how important execution is, if they don't execute, yet still win? How do you get them to buy into what you are trying to get them to do?

Maybe the lesson is now learned.

There have only been 2 games where I have immediately turned everything off, and did not listen to CNS, post-game. One was the Disaster in the Pasture, and the other one was..................well, should be obvious.

Both had the same problem: could not convert critical 3rd downs. This time was worse, as we could not convert ANY, after the 2nd(?) set of downs.


On a side note.........................can anyone here remember a game where we did not make adjustments, coming out of halftime? Seems to me that we didn't. But, could be mistaken, and blinded by my dislike of a former coach/player that now wears orange.
 

Clay

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Jan 12, 2017
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agree with everything listed, also Clemson made some plays on the last drive that were amazing. The catch on the high and away ball that was made near the 10 yard line was a HECK of a catch. The 15 yard penalty we gave them on that drive was a dagger as well...

ROLL TIDE
Clay
 

CrimsonProf

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Dec 30, 2006
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agree with everything listed, also Clemson made some plays on the last drive that were amazing. The catch on the high and away ball that was made near the 10 yard line was a HECK of a catch. The 15 yard penalty we gave them on that drive was a dagger as well...

ROLL TIDE
Clay
Should have been offsetting penalties but it's water under the bridge.


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BAMAfan777

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Jun 25, 2010
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And games are decided by injury. If Hamilton and Jackson would have played in the Clemson game, Bama would have been undefeated last year. I'm sure Evans and Brown will be great next year, but they got burned quite a bit from the pass that night. Those plays changed a lot of the momentum, and put the Tigers in a place where they were back in the game. Stewart didn't have his best game either, though. Got to give some credit to Watson and his receivers.

Add in the third quarter, the Bo injury, and Boom!
Bo was running like Henry last year, when they rode Derek down the backstretch to put games away.
 
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twonahotub

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Jan 26, 2017
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I agree, but I still think the so call 'pick six' play that ended the game was a farce!! If its a legal play I can only hope that CS will exploit it to the limit, I know that if I was a coach I would. Either make it legal or illegal one way or another, not for just the one conference.......
 

scrodz

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I agree, but I still think the so call 'pick six' play that ended the game was a farce!! If its a legal play I can only hope that CS will exploit it to the limit, I know that if I was a coach I would. Either make it legal or illegal one way or another, not for just the one conference.......
SO tired of hearing this... If the ump's calling the outside strike, you throw it outside.
 

twonahotub

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I agree with all that is being said about assessments and adjustments and especially execution but there is no substitute for a referee calling a play that cost us the game a legal play. I mean, really now I've watched it a lot of times over and over and it was clear to me that there was an offensive pass interference there is no other way it could be legally called anything else!
 

selmaborntidefan

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I agree with all that is being said about assessments and adjustments and especially execution but there is no substitute for a referee calling a play that cost us the game a legal play. I mean, really now I've watched it a lot of times over and over and it was clear to me that there was an offensive pass interference there is no other way it could be legally called anything else!

I'll never understand why fans will forgive one hundred missed blocks, assignments and tackles by their own team in a football game - to blame one or even two bad calls by an official for the loss.
 

selmaborntidefan

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We've kind of rolled our eyes and laughed at Saban when he's said after a blowout every game is decided by one or two plays. Looking back at last night, he's right.

We can point to various things that played into the loss, but I think of three plays that changed the course of the game.

1. Cane's 43 yard reception on the screen from inside Clemson's 20 yard line.

We know an offense like Clemson is going to get theirs, and you just have to limit the damage. To that point in the game, the Bama defense had stopped Clemson and had Watson rattled. A missed tackle or two on the inside allowed Cane to break free and gain 43 yards and into Bama territory. That play gave the Clemson offense momentum.

2. Ryan Anderson's second half fumble recovery

If Renfrow doesn't hustle back and tackle Ryan at the 16, we have another NOT. The momentum is completely on Alabama's side, and the Clemson offense begins to get flustered. Instead, Alabama gets the ball and quickly gets a false start and ends up settling for a FG. Clemson being an emotional team gained confidence by their defense holding the offense to 3 points instead of 7.

3. Third and 10 at our own 44 with around 13:00 left in the game

The offense has a screen set up for Damian Harris, but OJ somehow catches the ball and only gains 5. If Harris makes the catch, he looked to get the first down and more. Instead, we had to punt.

Those are the three plays that stick out in my mind that changed the course of the game. Any others?

I've said for years that the number is eight, and I will stick with that until I'm persuaded otherwise. But the basic thrust - even a blowout is decided by a small number of plays - is absolutely true. And sometimes we don't 'know until the whole thing is done what one of the plays might have been.

Consider the 1993 Sugar Bowl. By all accounts the game was a blowout - on the scoreboard especially, 34-13. The single biggest play of the game was a play that - technically - never happened, Teague stripping Lamar Thomas of the ball. Without that strip on a play where we were called for offsides, Miami has the ball in our red zone with most of the third and all of the fourth quarter left. Even trailing 27-6 there would have been plenty of time for Miami to come back. I don't think they would have but if they get a TD there and it's 27-13, the whole complexion of the game is different.

The biggest play of the 1985 Iron Bowl wasn't Van Tiffin's kick - although we don't win without it - but Kermit Kendrick's late hit penalty putting the ball at the Tide eight-yard line. Eight additional yards with Bo and their backfield against our tiring defense, and Mike Shula never has a prayer at getting into range. It was a simple mistake that wound up saving the Tide. Well, okay, we could argue about Shula's block on the fourth and four reverse to Al Bell being even more important, but I digress.

In Super Bowl XVII, Joe Theisman knocked a potential pick six out of Kim Bokamper's hands deep in Redskin territory. If Bokamper scores, the Redskins are out of their John Riggins running game and trailing by double digits.

There are so many of them we could cite. So I concur with the basic premise, I've just found as I watch games that the number virtually always comes out to eight (that's without trying to make it). If the eight critical plays all go your way, it can turn a 10-6 close game into a 51-3 rout. The night of the LSU loss in 2011, six or seven of the biggest plays all went against Alabama - it is a testament to our players that we were still alive in overtime.
 

dooger

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I've said for years that the number is eight, and I will stick with that until I'm persuaded otherwise. But the basic thrust - even a blowout is decided by a small number of plays - is absolutely true. And sometimes we don't 'know until the whole thing is done what one of the plays might have been.

Consider the 1993 Sugar Bowl. By all accounts the game was a blowout - on the scoreboard especially, 34-13. The single biggest play of the game was a play that - technically - never happened, Teague stripping Lamar Thomas of the ball. Without that strip on a play where we were called for offsides, Miami has the ball in our red zone with most of the third and all of the fourth quarter left. Even trailing 27-6 there would have been plenty of time for Miami to come back. I don't think they would have but if they get a TD there and it's 27-13, the whole complexion of the game is different.

The biggest play of the 1985 Iron Bowl wasn't Van Tiffin's kick - although we don't win without it - but Kermit Kendrick's late hit penalty putting the ball at the Tide eight-yard line. Eight additional yards with Bo and their backfield against our tiring defense, and Mike Shula never has a prayer at getting into range. It was a simple mistake that wound up saving the Tide. Well, okay, we could argue about Shula's block on the fourth and four reverse to Al Bell being even more important, but I digress.

In Super Bowl XVII, Joe Theisman knocked a potential pick six out of Kim Bokamper's hands deep in Redskin territory. If Bokamper scores, the Redskins are out of their John Riggins running game and trailing by double digits.

There are so many of them we could cite. So I concur with the basic premise, I've just found as I watch games that the number virtually always comes out to eight (that's without trying to make it). If the eight critical plays all go your way, it can turn a 10-6 close game into a 51-3 rout. The night of the LSU loss in 2011, six or seven of the biggest plays all went against Alabama - it is a testament to our players that we were still alive in overtime.
Where is the news in this?? Football games have been decided by just a few plays ever since the game began. Bear Bryant made the same statement for years. Not sure I understand why Saban saying this increases the validity. For years every coach, and many fans, have made same the same comment. It appears as though Saban does a better job than most of using theories like this to keep players focused. And, it doesn't hurt to have the best recruiting classes, year in and out. BTW, can someone show me the offensive side of a football?
 

BamaMoon

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Been meaning to post this...probably as good as place as ever...

I know a former Big 12 head referee who still works the clock at Big 12 games and sometimes for the Cowboys. He's legit. He's on top of the rules. He has no ax to grind against Bama or for Clemson.

He says the two pix plays that Clemson ran were NOT offensive pass interference. He said the first one was more "questionable" than the second. He said he would not have thrown the flag on either play.

Don't shoot the messenger.:smile:
 

CrimsonForce

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Been meaning to post this...probably as good as place as ever...

I know a former Big 12 head referee who still works the clock at Big 12 games and sometimes for the Cowboys. He's legit. He's on top of the rules. He has no ax to grind against Bama or for Clemson.

He says the two pix plays that Clemson ran were NOT offensive pass interference. He said the first one was more "questionable" than the second. He said he would not have thrown the flag on either play.

Don't shoot the messenger.:smile:
Yep. Every officiating supervisor/commissioner that commented on the 2 plays said the same thing. 1st one was questionable and 2nd one was DPI if anything. Folks need to move from blaming the officials on those 2 plays..
 

Bamabuzzard

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Been meaning to post this...probably as good as place as ever...

I know a former Big 12 head referee who still works the clock at Big 12 games and sometimes for the Cowboys. He's legit. He's on top of the rules. He has no ax to grind against Bama or for Clemson.

He says the two pix plays that Clemson ran were NOT offensive pass interference. He said the first one was more "questionable" than the second. He said he would not have thrown the flag on either play.

Don't shoot the messenger.:smile:
And I would expect this answer from an official whose entire conference is built around passing the ball. Living in northwest Louisiana (basically east texas) I get to see a lot of Big 12 games. They are very "loose" in the interpretation and application of any rules and penalties that would hurt the offensive side of the ball. They "let'em play" from the offensive side of things.

But regardless, those two questionable plays isn't what cost us the game. Not even close.
 

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