Question Comparing Kiffin and Sark (related to Monday night especially)

BamaMoon · Jan 12, 2017

I almost posted a new thread about this yesterday, but I was waiting to hear if others were talking about this. I asked this question in a couple of the ongoing threads, but never saw a response so I'll just post a new topic.

I'll preface this by saying this is not a trash Lane or question Sark thread, but just a question specifically about something I noticed Monday night.

With Kiffin (let's say "good Kiffin" when he's focused) it seemed in our hurry up we'd get the play in, get lined up, and then he'd look at the defensive alignment and signal to run that play OR he'd change it. In doing all this, it explains why the play clock would often run way down close to zero. So even though we went no huddle we were really taking our time and changing plays.

On Monday, it seemed like Sark got the plays in very fast. But it seemed like we snapped the ball a lot quicker. I'm sure I might have missed it, but I don't remember JH looking to the sideline as much for a possible change. Therefore, we snapped the ball quicker (while not running off as much clock and speeded up the game, which was a huge issue and explains why they ran 99 plays).

But it seemed that on a number of occasions the Clemson linebacker (team leader on defense) was signaling the defense as if he knew which play was coming. So they would adjust, but instead of changing our play, we'd run right into what they were expecting.

So my question: Did this happen as much as it seemed AND do you think Sark was a little rusty at play calling and /or communicating audibles OR was out game plan to go faster at the risk of not calling audibles?

Hope this makes sense and I'm looking forward to hearing the varied responses.

#1sabanite · Jan 12, 2017

yes it happened as much as it seemed

to me almost enough to wonder if they were picking up on something to know the next play

CaliforniaTide · Jan 12, 2017

Someone, or multiple people on that offense may have inadvertently tipped off the defense what they were going to do. I noticed several times Boulware either was in the right place at the right time, or flat out signaled before the play where it was going. Saban has mentioned in seasons past about cleaning that up.

B1GTide · Jan 12, 2017

They said after the game that they were just attacking certain things based on formations. They ignored certain players in certain formations, knowing that Hurts was not going to them. In other words, your multiple offense was negated because they took risks. Assuming that was true (I have not watched the game again to verify), it explains why you had trouble with the really wide plays. If true, it is a shame that Sark never caught on.

smith5753 · Jan 12, 2017

#1sabanite said:
yes it happened as much as it seemed

to me almost enough to wonder if they were picking up on something to know the next play

This. It was very noticeable. I think a lot of the no audible probably was due to the lack of time Sark had to gel with the offense. He probably had to keep everything simple with less than a week to work with. It was very frustrating watching their LB signal play after play. I think the other point someone already made was they didn't respect our passing game at all which helped them snuff out our wide plays and short passes

92tide · Jan 12, 2017

B1GTide said:
They said after the game that they were just attacking certain things based on formations. They ignored certain players in certain formations, knowing that Hurts was not going to them. In other words, your multiple offense was negated because they took risks. Assuming that was true (I have not watched the game again to verify), it explains why you had trouble with the really wide plays. If true, it is a shame that Sark never caught on.

i think that there were probably fairly large limitations on our ability to adjust offensively with sark calling his first game with a week's notice.

PA Tide Fan · Jan 12, 2017

I think one reason Sark was getting the plays in fast and not doing audibles was because it was his first game as OC, he was in a championship game, and a huge audience was watching. There's no worse way to start off a new OC job than have your team getting called for delay of game penalties because you don't get the play in. It immediately gets the HC and fans mad at you and is embarrassing in front of a huge national audience. In Kiffin's first season here he was getting plays in fast also and I think Coach Saban had to tell him to slow it down a bit. He may have to tell Sark to slow it down a bit also. I think there are different philosophies in coaching as well. Some coaches (like Kiffin) felt they needed to constantly adjust to exploit some weakness they thought they saw in the defense. Other coaches I think feel their offense should just run the plays they are good at and feel that if everyone executes their blocks properly then they can still pick up decent yardage even if the defense has an idea which way they are going.

CrimsonEyeshade · Jan 12, 2017

Someone in the booth should have told him that Clemson's back 7 had largely abandoned the center of the field. Yet we never adjusted -- heck we avoided the center of the field all year. They made us defend sideline to sideline. We made it far easier for them.

PA Tide Fan said:
I think one reason Sark was getting the plays in fast and not doing audibles was because it was his first game as OC, he was in a championship game, and a huge audience was watching. There's no worse way to start off a new OC job than have your team getting called for delay of game penalties because you don't get the play in. It immediately gets the HC and fans mad at you and is embarrassing in front of a huge national audience. In Kiffin's first season here he was getting plays in fast also and I think Coach Saban had to tell him to slow it down a bit. He may have to tell Sark to slow it down a bit also. I think there are different philosophies in coaching as well. Some coaches (like Kiffin) felt they needed to constantly adjust to exploit some weakness they thought they saw in the defense. Other coaches I think feel their offense should just run the plays they are good at and feel that if everyone executes their blocks properly then they can still pick up decent yardage even if the defense has an idea which way they are going.

BamaMoon · Jan 12, 2017

CrimsonEyeshade said:
Someone in the booth should have told him that Clemson's back 7 had largely abandoned the center of the field. Yet we never adjusted -- heck we avoided the center of the field all year. They made us defend sideline to sideline. We made it far easier for them.

Jalen seemed to struggle with passes over the middle all season. Deep crosses and seam routes were basically not existent. I think one area JH struggled in is touch. Those middle routes have to be thrown over the linebackers and he just never seemed like he could make that throw.

CrimsonEyeshade · Jan 12, 2017

Agreed. And we got away with it until Monday night. I will point out that Jalen's big scrambles at Baton Rouge and in Tampa were made possible in part because the defenses were flanked so wide. We had to make them pay, but couldn't or wouldn't make the obvious throws. Next year.

PitMaster · Jan 12, 2017

I mentioned this in another thread, but is there a chance kiffin may have passed on some info Clemson

Their defense just seemed more daunting than they have been all year, and I don't think boulware is some linebacking Guru that's able to recognize plays before they happen on his own

81usaf92 · Jan 12, 2017

Sarks game plan was not to be overally aggressive like CLK and not too conservative like Mac. I think the coaching staff has seen that Jalen was struggling the last 6 games and not progressing. So they went with the Washington game philosophy of every drive ends with a kick and defense wins the game. The biggest difference is that sark was far more contained than Kiffin and was calling Jalen's reads. Jalen and the receivers just couldn't come through.

What Sark's offense will be around Jalen will most likely be like what it was with Locker at Washington. That has the potential of being one of the most brilliant offensive production the SEC has ever seen. But I think Sark did as much as he could Monday with what he had to deal with, and that is all we could have realistically asked for.

theballguy · Jan 12, 2017

Sark did a good job considering everything. I can only imagine Nick Saban sent Kiffin packing for good reason. I trust CNS completely. I'll be you something though, Sark gets a lot better next year having a lot more time to get himself and the offense ready.

alwayshavebeen · Jan 12, 2017

Bo doesn't get hurt and I think this conversation never happens.

BamaMoon · Jan 12, 2017

alwayshavebeen said:
Bo doesn't get hurt and I think this conversation never happens.

I've heard that said many times already...it may be right...but I'm disappointed we didn't try to run Harris or Jacobs more in the 4th quarter.

Even if we run them and its a three and out we burn more clock that with all those incomplete passes.

rhans405 · Jan 14, 2017

So, was Kiffin glad or sad at the results last Monday?

NationalTitles18 · Jan 14, 2017

Is it wrong for me to put the blame for this loss squarely on Kiffin's shoulders? Because rightly or wrongly, I do. Had he maintained a modicum of focus on his obligations to the job he chose to maintain through the playoffs he would have been calling the plays and there would have been no issues with continuity. He is the sole reason Saban had to make the call he made to change OC's at the time he did. With "good Kiffin" at the offensive helm there's a good chance we win this game. With "bad Kiffin" removed we still almost won despite the odds. With "bad Kiffin" leading the offense we didn't have a chance.

JustNeedMe81 · Jan 14, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
Is it wrong for me to put the blame for this loss squarely on Kiffin's shoulders? Because rightly or wrongly, I do. Had he maintained a modicum of focus on his obligations to the job he chose to maintain through the playoffs he would have been calling the plays and there would have been no issues with continuity. He is the sole reason Saban had to make the call he made to change OC's at the time he did. With "good Kiffin" at the offensive helm there's a good chance we win this game. With "bad Kiffin" removed we still almost won despite the odds. With "bad Kiffin" leading the offense we didn't have a chance.

Hmm, I dont' blame it on Kiffin at all... In the end.. it is what it is.

RTR91 · Jan 14, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
Is it wrong for me to put the blame for this loss squarely on Kiffin's shoulders? Because rightly or wrongly, I do. Had he maintained a modicum of focus on his obligations to the job he chose to maintain through the playoffs he would have been calling the plays and there would have been no issues with continuity. He is the sole reason Saban had to make the call he made to change OC's at the time he did. With "good Kiffin" at the offensive helm there's a good chance we win this game. With "bad Kiffin" removed we still almost won despite the odds. With "bad Kiffin" leading the offense we didn't have a chance.

I put some blame on him but for a different reason. Don't feel like he did his job in developing Jalen as the season progressed, and that led to the problems in the passing game Monday night.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

81usaf92 · Jan 14, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
Is it wrong for me to put the blame for this loss squarely on Kiffin's shoulders? Because rightly or wrongly, I do. Had he maintained a modicum of focus on his obligations to the job he chose to maintain through the playoffs he would have been calling the plays and there would have been no issues with continuity. He is the sole reason Saban had to make the call he made to change OC's at the time he did. With "good Kiffin" at the offensive helm there's a good chance we win this game. With "bad Kiffin" removed we still almost won despite the odds. With "bad Kiffin" leading the offense we didn't have a chance.

That's more of in the "of colt hadn't got hurt" territory of blaming stuff. We lost because Clemson was 4 points better than us, and not because we had a coordinator with his mind wandering every which a way. Like 91 said, if there was any direct blame for him it was not developing Jalen enough, but blaming him for the game ignores bo getting hurt, field conditions, refs, and just the simple fact that Watson is by far the toughest and best qb we have faced in the last 10 years.

Question Comparing Kiffin and Sark (related to Monday night especially)

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