News Article: Californians looking to secede?

Tide1986 · Jan 28, 2017

Jon said:
and as charmin hinted at I'm sure all their Brown senior execs (let alone the Gay ones, Think Tim Cook wants to come back to Baldwin Country and Bring Apple to the "new" US? if you do you are dumb enough to have voted for Trump) would feel really comfortable moving to Trump's America, y'all are smoking crack if you think more than a few of them would. Personally I watched a company I work for try to move 1 office to Texas and it lead to a revolt with dozens of employees quitting and moving to other companies within a week.

I thought "progressives" weren't xenophobic. Probably scared of all those really really dark brown people living in "Trump's America".

Bama Reb · Jan 28, 2017

4Q Basket Case said:
Notable points. But I'm not sure they're terribly relevant to the core question of whether the other 49 states are better off with or without California. At least two reasons for that:

First, nevermind that all those companies would then be headquartered in a foreign country. They would all need the huge market of the remaining 49 states. So it's not like the remaining USA would lose the benefit of having them around. We'd just no longer physically house the HQ.

Second, that still doesn't answer the core question: Net net, are the rest of us better off with California in or out?

If the answer is, "Yes. On balance, we are better off without them. There is undeniable good there. But it costs too much. So the bad outweighs the good," then let them go.

If the answer is, "No. There are definite negatives, but California is too valuable, and we are better off with it than without it," then why do they continually bounce from one financial crisis to the next?

Next question, and one that must be asked, is What about the Hollywood elite. Do you think they want to stay and become residents of a newly formed country, and allow everything they have to be drained away to fund that new country? Surely that would be required of them. Then what, when everything they had is gone?
Californians should ask themselves, How are they (or better yet, WHO) is going to fund the formation and building of their newly formed government?

CharminTide · Jan 28, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
Makes sense to me and you seem to have a good grasp. I wonder how many of the leftist secessionists will feel, though.

I'm sure the idea of seceding from the red fascist state will speak to just as many on the left as Trump's xenophobic rhetoric captured on the right. Amid the scandals and nominations and executive orders, I honestly think the investigations into Russian influence are the most important things happening in our country right now.

LA4Bama · Jan 28, 2017

I wonder if I'll have dual citizenship?:biggrin:

Bama Reb · Jan 28, 2017

Jon said:
good luck fighting without your tech infrastructure in 2017 cause California can make the US go back to the early 1900's by pulling a couple plugs

Wow. I think you've been hanging around in Gov. Moonbeam's office too long. Got a little too much of his second hand smoke.

4Q Basket Case · Jan 28, 2017

Jon said:
sure they'd sell to you in the other 49 but where do those profits go? (Hint, not America, not anymore)

The profits would remain with the shareholders, not any governmental entity. (Hint: It doesn't matter where they live.)

LA4Bama · Jan 28, 2017

It would be like Brexit. We need a cool name. I nominate "CAsta Luego"

NationalTitles18 · Jan 28, 2017

What if Silicon Valley and/or other pockets/enclaves decide to remain with the U.S.? Will the new nation that just asserted the right of self determination allow others the same right?

If CA leaving would cripple the U.S. as suggested do you really think they would be allowed to leave by the feds? I highly doubt it.

It's interesting to talk about the Russian influence sowing seeds here and there on both the left and the right. In reality, isn't this division of our own making? And isn't the focus on Russian influence simply a failure to take ownership of our own flaws and faults? And shouldn't we be looking for ways to allow each other to live our lives as each of us want instead of imposing our will on each other wherever and whenever we can? IOW, (and I truly mean this) if classical liberalism (now called libertarianism with a small "L") were to prevail instead of the statist left or the statist right then wouldn't we stand a better chance of surviving as a united country and of maybe even living with and *gasp* perhaps even liking each other? Without classical liberalism, the proverbial "culture war" has a chance if things continue to become more than proverbial.

Bamaro · Jan 28, 2017

Bama Reb said:
Since the leftists of southern Californians don't like guns, their "civil war" wouldn't last long.

There is a huge difference between not liking guns and not turning a blind eye to every ******* having one.

Jon · Jan 28, 2017

4Q Basket Case said:
The profits would remain with the shareholders, not any governmental entity. (Hint: It doesn't matter where they live.)

so the why does anyone care about the Billions in profits these guys are holding overseas? Wasn't that one of the reason y'all loved Trump because he was going to allow these dollars back at a better tax rate?

Jon · Jan 28, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
What if Silicon Valley and/or other pockets/enclaves decide to remain with the U.S.? Will the new nation that just asserted the right of self determination allow others the same right?

If CA leaving would cripple the U.S. as suggested do you really think they would be allowed to leave by the feds? I highly doubt it.

It's interesting to talk about the Russian influence sowing seeds here and there on both the left and the right. In reality, isn't this division of our own making? And isn't the focus on Russian influence simply a failure to take ownership of our own flaws and faults? And shouldn't we be looking for ways to allow each other to live our lives as each of us want instead of imposing our will on each other wherever and whenever we can? IOW, (and I truly mean this) if classical liberalism (now called libertarianism with a small "L") were to prevail instead of the statist left or the statist right then wouldn't we stand a better chance of surviving as a united country and of maybe even living with and *gasp* perhaps even liking each other? Without classical liberalism, the proverbial "culture war" has a chance if things continue to become more than proverbial.

California is every bit as redneck as the central US outside of those pockets, those pockets contain the people who would want to leave, not stay

LA4Bama · Jan 28, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
It's interesting to talk about the Russian influence sowing seeds here and there on both the left and the right. In reality, isn't this division of our own making? And isn't the focus on Russian influence simply a failure to take ownership of our own flaws and faults? And shouldn't we be looking for ways to allow each other to live our lives as each of us want instead of imposing our will on each other wherever and whenever we can? IOW, (and I truly mean this) if classical liberalism (now called libertarianism with a small "L") were to prevail instead of the statist left or the statist right then wouldn't we stand a better chance of surviving as a united country and of maybe even living with and *gasp* perhaps even liking each other? Without classical liberalism, the proverbial "culture war" has a chance if things continue to become more than proverbial.

This is a very good point. We are divided and divorcing everywhere. The need is to be a union, however, I fail to see how libertarian principles would do anything to help that. Libertarian thinking makes the splintering into separate interests its fundamental rule, but it doesn't make real problems go away.

Tide1986 · Jan 28, 2017

Jon said:
so the why does anyone care about the Billions in profits these guys are holding overseas? Wasn't that one of the reason y'all loved Trump because he was going to allow these dollars back at a better tax rate?

The left cares far more about overseas profits...they crave the tax revenue.

81usaf92 · Jan 28, 2017

CharminTide said:
I'm sure the idea of seceding from the red fascist state will speak to just as many on the left as Trump's xenophobic rhetoric captured on the right. Amid the scandals and nominations and executive orders, I honestly think the investigations into Russian influence are the most important things happening in our country right now.

If you still think Putin had more to do with Trump winning than Hilliary did then you haven't been paying attention for the past 20+ years at the unified animosity the right has against Hilliary, or it's just too hard for you to accept that he won the presidency.

You don't win elections based upon the far left or far right you win them based upon the normal people. The Russian allegations were out there well before Election Day among his sexist, racist, and xenophobic occurrences. But guess what... he still won. I frankly find Americans killed in Benghazi more concerning than Russians uncovering dirt on a presidential candidate more alarming. And we all know where that went, and we all know where the Russian allegations is going too. So no it is nowhere near the most important thing we should focus on now.

CharminTide · Jan 28, 2017

81usaf92 said:
If you still think Putin had more to do with Trump winning than Hilliary did then you haven't been paying attention for the past 20+ years at the unified animosity the right has against Hilliary, or it's just too hard for you to accept that he won the presidency.

Not at all what I said, and not at all the point I was making.

CharminTide · Jan 28, 2017

NationalTitles16 said:
It's interesting to talk about the Russian influence sowing seeds here and there on both the left and the right. In reality, isn't this division of our own making? And isn't the focus on Russian influence simply a failure to take ownership of our own flaws and faults?

To be clear, I'm not at all blaming Russia for creating the divides in our country -- they've existed in some form since the county's birth, so that would be silly. But if I were Putin, I would absolutely take advantage of those existing cracks.

NationalTitles16 said:
And shouldn't we be looking for ways to allow each other to live our lives as each of us want instead of imposing our will on each other wherever and whenever we can? IOW, (and I truly mean this) if classical liberalism (now called libertarianism with a small "L") were to prevail instead of the statist left or the statist right then wouldn't we stand a better chance of surviving as a united country and of maybe even living with and *gasp* perhaps even liking each other? Without classical liberalism, the proverbial "culture war" has a chance if things continue to become more than proverbial.

So social conservatism is why we can't have nice things?

It's blue, but there's some truth to it. Blacks don't deserve equal rights. Members of two races cannot wed. A woman's body is not entirely her own. Sodomy is against God. Gays shall not marry. Muslims cannot enter America. Above all others, one political ideology in this country has defined itself by an inability to keep its nose out of its neighbor's private affairs, and we'd be better off without it.

NationalTitles18 · Jan 28, 2017

Jon said:
California is every bit as redneck as the central US outside of those pockets, those pockets contain the people who would want to leave, not stay

Mostly the coastal cities would maybe want to leave. Most of the rest would want to stay. Most of the rest is rednecks with guns.

LA4Bama said:
This is a very good point. We are divided and divorcing everywhere. The need is to be a union, however, I fail to see how libertarian principles would do anything to help that. Libertarian thinking makes the splintering into separate interests its fundamental rule, but it doesn't make real problems go away.

We are divided because we want to impose our will on each other. We could use a little live and let live classical liberalism. That does not undermine a political union. It strengthens it.

4Q Basket Case · Jan 28, 2017

Jon said:
so the why does anyone care about the Billions in profits these guys are holding overseas? Wasn't that one of the reason y'all loved Trump because he was going to allow these dollars back at a better tax rate?

First point: The shareholders don't care. Tide1986 beat me to the tax angle and the left's desire for tax revenue.

Second point: You made an unwarranted leap from my conservative philosophy to support of Donald Trump. As I stated on this board many times, I am no fan of his. Obviously, I didn't support Clinton either. I threw up my hands and wrote in Nick Saban. No kidding.

Third point: Whether I supported Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton or Bozo the Clown (sometimes hard to distinguish among the three, I know) has no bearing on the question of whether the remaining 49 states are better or worse off if California secedes. It's an ad hominem characterization, intended as a slight, based on a logical non sequitur.

I've asked the same question twice. Twice, I got no answer. Even though we disagree politically, I know, based on your long posting history, that you're plenty smart.

From those facts, I can infer only that an answer won't be forthcoming.

I will therefore spend no further time on the subject.

NationalTitles18 · Jan 28, 2017

CharminTide said:
To be clear, I'm not at all blaming Russia for creating the divides in our country -- they've existed in some form since the county's birth, so that would be silly. But if I were Putin, I would absolutely take advantage of those existing cracks.

So social conservatism is why we can't have nice things?

It's blue, but there's some truth to it. Blacks don't deserve equal rights. Members of two races cannot wed. A woman's body is not entirely her own. Sodomy is against God. Gays shall not marry. Muslims cannot enter America. Above all others, one political ideology in this country has defined itself by an inability to keep its nose out of its neighbor's private affairs, and we'd be better off without it.

That is a rather skewed view consider that leftists believe everyone should live as they wish as long as the left approves of it. They say you can't follow your conscience (or religion) in ALL of your affairs. Others have to pay for your "rights". Let's not forget it was democrats who originally fought for slavery and against civil rights even though now it is BOTH sides obstructing justice with a lack of criminal justice reform and drug prohibition (though moreso or the right). Let's get real here: the mainstream left says that every medical provider who is able must provide abortion services, and birth control, that even those who oppose paying for it on conscientious grounds must do so out of their company's pockets, that no one can decide which weddings to cater or photo or whatever unless it is for reasons the left deems acceptable, and so on. To pretend one side wants to impose their will and the other stands for nothing but justice is dishonest to the hilt. To pretend that either side is completely perfect or completely wrong is also dishonest.

DzynKingRTR · Jan 28, 2017

I hope California does secede and all of you that are still whining can move there. I didn't vote for the man either but some of you are letting it consume you.

News Article: Californians looking to secede?

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