Neil Grouch nominated (now confirmed) for SCOTUS

Tide1986

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

If the GOP refuses the high road, it's bad strategy for the Democrats to take it alone.

Besides, the politics here were all about 2018. The base wanted them to filibuster Gorsuch. Had they just passively let him breeze through confirmation hearings, it would've demobilized a significant portion of the base.
The GOP definitely had the high ground with this nominee. Completely mainstream and unimpeachable with respect to character and credentials. The Dems had the opportunity to preserve their outrage for a truly objectionable nominee, which I assume the likes of Pryor would be. As well, Republican support for such an "extreme" nominee would likely be weaker, and a Dem filibuster would be more reasonable and frankly effective as a result, likely attracting Republicans to their side. But now it's "our team versus yours", which the Dems can only win if they retake the Senate. Schumer most definitely misplayed his hand. I'll take that unforced error.
 

CharminTide

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

The Dems had the opportunity to preserve their outrage for a truly objectionable nominee, which I assume the likes of Pryor would be. As well, Republican support for such an "extreme" nominee would likely be weaker, and a Dem filibuster would be more reasonable and frankly effective as a result, likely attracting Republicans to their side.
 

CajunCrimson

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

Unlikely. Keep in mind that the two scenarios are

2. Filibuster Gorsuch. McConnell goes nuclear. Gorsuch gets confirmed. Ginsburg retires. Trump nominates Pryor (as an example). Pryor Gets confirmed.
1. Don't filibuster Gorsuch. Ginsburg retires. Trump nominates Pryor (as an example). Dems filibuster. McConnell goes nuclear. Pryor Gets confirmed.
After the foolishness they pulled with Obamacare -- the Democrats played the "Nuclear" card repeatedly. Harry Reid played it several times...

Love this....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/6/media-praised-nuclear-option-when-democrats-did-it/

The mainstream media were all for the “nuclear option” when it was Democrats doing the nuking.
The press showered praise upon the Senate for removing the filibuster for lower-court judicial nominees and executive appointments in 2013 in the effort spearheaded by then-Majority Leader Harry Reid.
MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow assured her viewers at the time that “judges can be blocked on an up-or-down vote, a majority vote, like always.
“But they cannot be blocked anymore by just a minority of votes,” Ms. Maddow said, reported the Media Research Center’s NewsBusters. “Republicans cannot force that anymore.”

MSNBC anchor Chris Hayes similarly hailed the 2013 development as “an affirmative win for democracy,” while his colleague Al Sharpton said “Democrats took the bold step of changing Senate rules, scaling back the filibuster that Republicans have unfairly used to block the president’s nominees.”
CNN commentator Marc Lamont Hill said Republicans should have taken the Senate back if the party wanted to preserve the filibuster
.
That may have been the best idea Marc Lamont Hill ever had ;)
 
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Tide1986

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

After the foolishness they pulled with Obamacare -- the Democrats played the "Nuclear" card repeatedly. Harry Reid played it several times...

Love this....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/6/media-praised-nuclear-option-when-democrats-did-it/



That may have been the best idea Marc Lamont Hill ever had ;)
Yeah, and of course the lefties like saying the Republicans did it so now it's okay if the Dems do it back at 'em. They like pointing to prior acts of the other side when it suits their narrative.
 

bama_wayne1

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

Why did Obama know that the Senate was going to sit it out? Because the Republicans declared that they wouldn't hold hearings on any nominations before Scalia's corpse was cold. They painted themselves as petty partisans.
I think they got the idea from former VP Joe Biden.
 

81usaf92

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

If the GOP refuses the high road, it's bad strategy for the Democrats to take it alone.

Besides, the politics here were all about 2018. The base wanted them to filibuster Gorsuch. Had they just passively let him breeze through confirmation hearings, it would've demobilized a significant portion of the base.
Playing with the majority is a lot less risky than playing with the minority. Had they played ball and picked their battles, then they wouldn't be relying on Father Time being kind to them with the old liberal judges. It's highly unlikely that Pryor would've passed the nomination under the old conditions, but now it is pretty much a forgone conclusion that if Trump gets another pick then they will get in without issue.

Point is despite what they felt about the merrick Garland situation, the Dems were playing with a minority and they wasted their "trump" card on probably the less dangerous nominee that Trump could've put out there.
 

CharminTide

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

Playing with the majority is a lot less risky than playing with the minority. Had they played ball and picked their battles, then they wouldn't be relying on Father Time being kind to them with the old liberal judges. It's highly unlikely that Pryor would've passed the nomination under the old conditions, but now it is pretty much a forgone conclusion that if Trump gets another pick then they will get in without issue.

Point is despite what they felt about the merrick Garland situation, the Dems were playing with a minority and they wasted their "trump" card on probably the less dangerous nominee that Trump could've put out there.
I couldn't disagree more, and I'm not sure what you've seen from the GOP over the past few years to give you the impression they would kowtow to Democratic objections over any SCOTUS nominee. Had the Democrats filibustered this nominee or a different one 9 months from now, McConnell's actions and rhetoric made it pretty clear they would've killed the filibuster in either circumstance.
 

CajunCrimson

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

I couldn't disagree more, and I'm not sure what you've seen from the GOP over the past few years to give you the impression they would kowtow to Democratic objections over any SCOTUS nominee. Had the Democrats filibustered this nominee or a different one 9 months from now, McConnell's actions and rhetoric made it pretty clear they would've killed the filibuster in either circumstance.
Given what the Dems have done and said regarding the Nuclear option for nominees, and Biden's speech from 1992 about not letting the Lame Duck Nominee come to a vote -- how can you make any argument at all? Just because the sides flipped -- doesn't the same logic the Democrats applied not hold true?

I can post Maddow's quote, Marc Lamont Hill's quote, Biden's quote -- if that helps. But, aren't the republicans doing the exact same thing that the Democrats did?
 

jthomas666

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

The politics are distinctly different between those two options. The Dems had the opportunity to take the high road and show that they support a reasonable nominee. They've now lost that ground so no one will hear their cries if a hard right judge is nominated. Their only hope is to win the Senate before the next seat opens up.
They haven't lost anything. All they have to do is say that the vote against Gorsuch was a protest against the treatment of Garland; you can make a good argument that voting for a floor vote is a tacit ratification of the refusal to hold hearings on a legally nominated candidate.

Besides, given McConnell's behavior over the past 8 years, does anyone really think he will give a rip about popular opinion if presented with the opportunity to dramatically shift the balance of the court?
 

CharminTide

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

You mean when he said that it might not be a good idea to nominate someone in the summer or fall of an election season--that is, several months before an election, not a year?
There ya go with that libural bias again.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

Why did Obama know that the Senate was going to sit it out? Because the Republicans declared that they wouldn't hold hearings on any nominations before Scalia's corpse was cold. They painted themselves as petty partisans.
Yeah, the Democrats would NEVER play partisan politics over a dead body, right?


1) 2000 Missouri Senate race

A movement is under way among Missouri Democrats to install Gov. Mel Carnahan's widow in the Senate seat he was seeking when he was killed in a plane crash. Missouri's new governor, Democrat Roger Wilson, said Tuesday he has offered to appoint Jean Carnahan to the Senate if her late husband gets more votes than his opponent, Republican Sen. John Ashcroft, on Nov. 7...Wilson acknowledged he is asking voters to take a strange step on Election Day and vote for a dead man, but he said "that's what I'm going to do."

2) 2002 Minnesota Senate race - pep rally, er, funeral for Paul Wellstone

"Democrats defended the nature of the service, but they also apologized to anyone who might have been offended....The criticism didn't just come from Republicans. (MN Governor) Ventura, who walked out of the service, said Democrats "should hang their head in shame. The first part of it I thought was excellent. When Rick Kahn got up, I left the building halfway through what he was doing," said Ventura, who could appoint an interim senator to take Wellstone's seat until November 5.

"I feel used. I feel violated and duped over the fact that that turned into nothing more than a political rally," he said.


Yeah, ONLY Republicans would ever use the death of someone to play politics.


Now let's be honest: if Hillary had won and the Democrats had won the Senate, the same people here now whining about the outcome of the process would be saying crap like "the people have spoken." Well, the people spoke. They elected a Republican President, Republican Senate, Republican House, and the GOP is at its highest level in state/local offices since Calvin Coolidge was President.

And, in fact, since the Democrats had already promised to do this anyway just two weeks before the election - nobody should be complaining about it at all.

(Of course, I don't really believe this at all. More than half the country cannot even name ONE Supreme Court justice. And half didn't vote anyway).

But if the election had gone the other way, the same people would adopt 180 degree variant posture, yet another indication that they don't REALLY care about the filibuster, they care about getting their way.

"Oh the games people play now, every night and every day now....never meaning what they say now....and never saying what they mean..."
 

Tide1986

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

Regarding Republican treatment of prior nominees:

http://www.politico.com/story/2010/05/kyl-gop-wont-filibuster-kagan-037308

Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan is unlikely to face a Republican filibuster, the Senate's second-ranking Republican said Sunday.

"The filibuster should be relegated to extreme circumstances, and I don't think Elena Kagan represents that," Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told CBS’s "Face the Nation."
Interestingly, there were Republicans who crossed party lines and voted to confirm Kagan (as well as Sotomayor earlier) even though she (and Sotomayor) is (both are) pretty far left on the political spectrum.
 

CajunCrimson

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

You mean when he said that it might not be a good idea to nominate someone in the summer or fall of an election season--that is, several months before an election, not a year?
Oh, so, Biden would have been okay with a nominee in March or April (when Garland was nominated) -- but June (when he gave the speech) -- well, that's too late?

 

Tide1986

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

You mean when he said that it might not be a good idea to nominate someone in the summer or fall of an election season--that is, several months before an election, not a year?
You learn something new every day...apparently a year is now less than 8 months.
 

CharminTide

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

Regarding Republican treatment of prior nominees:

http://www.politico.com/story/2010/05/kyl-gop-wont-filibuster-kagan-037308

Interestingly, there were Republicans who crossed party lines and voted to confirm Kagan (as well as Sotomayor earlier) even though she (and Sotomayor) is (both are) pretty far left on the political spectrum.
If your point is that the process of nominating Supreme Court justices used to be far less polarized before McConnell broke Senate norms in his refusal to even hold hearings for Garland while Obama still had a quarter of his term remaining... then we agree.
 

Tide1986

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

If your point is that the process of nominating Supreme Court justices used to be far less polarized before McConnell broke Senate norms in his refusal to even hold hearings for Garland while Obama still had a quarter of his term remaining... then we agree.
I see you conveniently leap over the advent of The Reid Rule.
 

81usaf92

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Re: Neil Gorsuch nominated for SC

I couldn't disagree more, and I'm not sure what you've seen from the GOP over the past few years to give you the impression they would kowtow to Democratic objections over any SCOTUS nominee. Had the Democrats filibustered this nominee or a different one 9 months from now, McConnell's actions and rhetoric made it pretty clear they would've killed the filibuster in either circumstance.
Maybe you missed the numbers of Republicans backing the Iran deal. Not every republican is an ultra conservative so it is very possible that they wouldn't all back a radical like Pryor.
 

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