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  1. #27
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Displaced Bama Fan View Post
    I'm afraid you'll just have to learn first hand. I would challenge you go to Dearborn, MI or Patterson, NJ or any other heavily concentrated muslim area during one of their festivals and question them on Sharia Law and their allegiance to the US. I think you'll be surprised by their answers when they are in numbers v. one muslim friend surrounded by a bunch of "bubbas." Remember the term I told you about - taqiya. Any religion that promotes lying to save one's self...I question.
    You could say the same about any group of socioeconomically disadvantaged people. Republicans make the same arguments about African and Mexican Americans. Anyone remember the hysteria over Kwanza or Ebonics? How many times do you hear arguments about lazy or shiftless African or Mexican Americans? On this board, it's a good bit. So what am I implying? The immigration argument, and the worry about terrorism is just another way to try and keep a group of people out based upon race or religion. This is obvious in the president carving out an exemption specifically for christians from that area.

    Now before you start thinking that I'm jumping up and playing the race card, remember I posted here on this board a fairly large post about why Obama shouldn't accept a significant number of Syrian refugees when it was suggested. I believe, as you do that Islam is fundamentally broken, and is in no way the religion of peace. My reasons were primarily socioeconomic in nature, and due to the realistic assumption that bringing a bunch of people into the country without the economic support to ensure that they are not allowed to self radicalize due to not having enough opportunities.

    So now it obviously seems as if I am trying to play both sides of the fence. I'll state my positions plainly. The presidents immigration/entry ban is not and never can do anything but alienate the Muslim world. We as Americans need more muslims to join in the fight or else we have already lost. I don't believe that you can win a war of ideology by playing into the fears and propaganda being perpetuated by the imams who are taking advantage of an uneducated, disadvantaged, and disillusioned segment of the Muslim population and using that to create an army of martyrs.

    I guess my main thing is that standing up and claiming this immigration ban will make America safe when you (the royal you) feel as if America would be better off with all muslims gone is disingenuous. It seems as if you are unwilling to state your position plainly and would rather hide your xenophobia behind the immigration ban, when it is obviously an illogical solution to what you feel is one of the major issues in American society. The majority of people affected by this ban have showed more respect for the American system as it stands than the Cheeto in chief who it seems to me is trying to make these people welcome by acting like a despot who believes he gets to rule by fiat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trump
    We're going to have insurance for everybody, there was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us.They can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better. Source
    Quote Originally Posted by Obama
    If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Source
    Can you guess which quote branded a president as a habitual liar?

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  3. #28
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Displaced Bama Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    I assume you believe that many Muslims are sleeper terrorists waiting to be awakened and that their religion is the predominant trigger.
    As I posted in the link...the more numbers they get the braver they get to resist the culture, laws and in general become more belligerent to their host country. Sometimes cultures don't mix and need to stay separated. In the case of Islam, as Chanson has pointed out, Islam is broken. However, it's not just a religion, it's a fundamental way of life. As a result, unless someone leaves the Islamic faith, they still carry with them the belief that Sharia supersedes the nation's laws. The belief that infidels should be killed. They believe women are property and can be beaten at a whim. Islamic culture and western culture are diametrically opposed to one another imho.

    Let's see how it plays out...it should be interesting.

  4. #29
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by chanson78 View Post
    You could say the same about any group of socioeconomically disadvantaged people. Republicans make the same arguments about African and Mexican Americans. Anyone remember the hysteria over Kwanza or Ebonics? How many times do you hear arguments about lazy or shiftless African or Mexican Americans? On this board, it's a good bit. So what am I implying? The immigration argument, and the worry about terrorism is just another way to try and keep a group of people out based upon race or religion. This is obvious in the president carving out an exemption specifically for christians from that area.

    Now before you start thinking that I'm jumping up and playing the race card, remember I posted here on this board a fairly large post about why Obama shouldn't accept a significant number of Syrian refugees when it was suggested. I believe, as you do that Islam is fundamentally broken, and is in no way the religion of peace. My reasons were primarily socioeconomic in nature, and due to the realistic assumption that bringing a bunch of people into the country without the economic support to ensure that they are not allowed to self radicalize due to not having enough opportunities.

    So now it obviously seems as if I am trying to play both sides of the fence. I'll state my positions plainly. The presidents immigration/entry ban is not and never can do anything but alienate the Muslim world. We as Americans need more muslims to join in the fight or else we have already lost. I don't believe that you can win a war of ideology by playing into the fears and propaganda being perpetuated by the imams who are taking advantage of an uneducated, disadvantaged, and disillusioned segment of the Muslim population and using that to create an army of martyrs.

    I guess my main thing is that standing up and claiming this immigration ban will make America safe when you (the royal you) feel as if America would be better off with all muslims gone is disingenuous. It seems as if you are unwilling to state your position plainly and would rather hide your xenophobia behind the immigration ban, when it is obviously an illogical solution to what you feel is one of the major issues in American society. The majority of people affected by this ban have showed more respect for the American system as it stands than the Cheeto in chief who it seems to me is trying to make these people welcome by acting like a despot who believes he gets to rule by fiat.
    Regarding the "Christian carveout", it is supported by existing immigration law, which provides priority for religious minorities. Trump's identification of the persecuted Christian minority is not the bogeyman some would like it to be.

  5. #30
    BamaNation First Team danb's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Displaced Bama Fan View Post
    As I posted in the link...the more numbers they get the braver they get to resist the culture, laws and in general become more belligerent to their host country. Sometimes cultures don't mix and need to stay separated. In the case of Islam, as Chanson has pointed out, Islam is broken. However, it's not just a religion, it's a fundamental way of life. As a result, unless someone leaves the Islamic faith, they still carry with them the belief that Sharia supersedes the nation's laws. The belief that infidels should be killed. They believe women are property and can be beaten at a whim. Islamic culture and western culture are diametrically opposed to one another imho.

    Let's see how it plays out...it should be interesting.
    I've pretty much stayed out of the conversation because I am really too busy to "back and forth" with someone over a view that they and I, will never agree on.

    But the issue that I can't understand, is the extreme support by the left, to defend a religion that fundamentally hates everything they are for, while continuously fighting against Christians......To stand up for a religion that....in doctrine.....preaches to kill any that will not convert. I know there are watered down versions that don't believe that, but there's no denying that the original core religion teaches killing of all non believers in the root text of their teachings......and we are told these few people that believe that, are "Radical"....Now who knows which follower of the "religion of peace" believes what?...I have no problem with any religion/race/etc...as long as it doesn't effect the liberties promised to every American Citizen, but there is strength in numbers....and refugees being funneled in our country due to oppression in their country, without the normal stringent screening process, is inherently a bad idea IMHO........So I really don't see where a short term "ban"..(call it what you will) is a great atrocity of our immigration policy......(been LOLing at the media spin, and belief it was denying all these legal people from entering!)

  6. #31
    BamaNation All-American MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Not to delve too deeply into the issue because I agree & disagree to some extent with both sides on the Islam conversation but I wanted to make a point as far as Europe's problems.

    A lot of them there are moved into mostly Muslim ghettos, unable to find jobs or have many opportunities.

    If you take young people of any race/creed and put them bored and in poverty with little to do you're going to end up with problems. We see that happen here all the time but they're not Muslims. They just turn to gangs, or radicalize based on race, etc.

  7. #32
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Displaced Bama Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    Not to delve too deeply into the issue because I agree & disagree to some extent with both sides on the Islam conversation but I wanted to make a point as far as Europe's problems.

    A lot of them there are moved into mostly Muslim ghettos, unable to find jobs or have many opportunities.

    If you take young people of any race/creed and put them bored and in poverty with little to do you're going to end up with problems. We see that happen here all the time but they're not Muslims. They just turn to gangs, or radicalize based on race, etc.
    So they're already poor. If they have nothing to offer, why let them in to begin with?

  8. #33
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    Not to delve too deeply into the issue because I agree & disagree to some extent with both sides on the Islam conversation but I wanted to make a point as far as Europe's problems.

    A lot of them there are moved into mostly Muslim ghettos, unable to find jobs or have many opportunities.

    If you take young people of any race/creed and put them bored and in poverty with little to do you're going to end up with problems. We see that happen here all the time but they're not Muslims. They just turn to gangs, or radicalize based on race, etc.
    I can take your argument and spin it another way. Let's look at it from school districts in Houston. The Woodlands is an upper middle class suburb. However, Aldine, well it's not a place you live if you can afford more. Needless to say the Woodland kids perform better academically. You know the Woodlands is a better school district and you move there so your kids get a better education and more opportunities to participate in various activities.

    However, now they want to take the kids from Aldine, who's parents aren't paying the property taxes you are, and send them to the Woodlands schools and utilize the tax money you've spent on the better schools so that your child could have a better education and water it down by spreading your tax dollars to kids that don't reside in your school district thus limiting the resources now available to your child/children.

    Is that fair? In the same way, these illegal immigrants, poor, uneducated immigrants, terrorists, or whatever you want to call them are soaking up tax dollars, whether it be in Germany, France, Sweden, Canada, the US, etc. by having to police them, educate them, jail them, clean up after they riot etc. Instead, had you just kept them out in the first place, your tax dollars would be better spent (theoretically) on improving the lives of its citizens.

    We aren't charged to use our tax dollars to make the world a better place. That's churches and charities responsibilities. We've lost complete sight of that.

  9. #34
    BamaNation All-SEC bama2112's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    I just realized this wasnt about football. My bad.

  10. #35
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Tide1986's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Displaced Bama Fan View Post
    So they're already poor. If they have nothing to offer, why let them in to begin with?
    With 500k illegal immigrants...oops, I mean "refugees"...crossing our southern border each year, I don't think we need to take any refugees from the non-American continents.

  11. #36
    BamaNation All-American MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Displaced Bama Fan View Post
    So they're already poor. If they have nothing to offer, why let them in to begin with?
    Who says all of them have nothing to offer?

    Despite the generalizations (that I engage in as well at times) there are many that have emigrated here for a chance at a better life, started successful businesses, and had a positive impact on our society.

    Are there radical dangerous Muslims? Sure. There are also radical dangerous Christians that have murdered/committed terror attacks here. Perhaps we need to outlaw that religion of peace as well since so many of them can't be trusted to behave.

  12. #37
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by Tide1986 View Post
    With 500k illegal immigrants...oops, I mean "refugees"...crossing our southern border each year, I don't think we need to take any refugees from the non-American continents.
    Or any more from the American continents either...not the ones that aren't contributing. But hey, like that stupid Osborne girl said on "The View" "who will clean our houses without Mexicans?" Moronic out of touch liberal.

  13. #38
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    Who says all of them have nothing to offer?

    Despite the generalizations (that I engage in as well at times) there are many that have emigrated here for a chance at a better life, started successful businesses, and had a positive impact on our society.

    Are there radical dangerous Muslims? Sure. There are also radical dangerous Christians that have murdered/committed terror attacks here. Perhaps we need to outlaw that religion of peace as well since so many of them can't be trusted to behave.
    Would you say the "Christian terrorists" are far and few between v. the muslims one or do they commit about the same number of crimes?

  14. #39
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    Re: Trump listens to Clinton & Obama on immigration

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    Who says all of them have nothing to offer?
    Bomb-making isn't a very in demand skill in western Europe or the North America is it?

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