ChrisD: Auburn 82, Alabama 77: Hard questions ahead in wake of Johnson’s second-year slump

JessN · Feb 4, 2017

Auburn 82, Alabama 77: Hard questions ahead in wake of Johnson’s second-year slump
by Chris DePew
TideFans Staff
February 4th, 2017 11:45 PM

By Chris DePew TideFans.com staff Feb. 4, 2017 Alabama surrendered 15 3-pointers to Auburn on Saturday and a furious late rally could do little more than turn another potential blowout into a bitter 82-77 loss against the Tigers at Coleman Coliseum. What did we learn today?: Avery Johnson is staking his Crimson Tide career on […]

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RTR91 · Feb 4, 2017

Is this serious?

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Bama Shoals · Feb 4, 2017

I agree with it. Avery Johnson is showing some deficiencies as a coach right now. If you have a bad half court offensive team who lacks shooters, try to get them easy shots through pressure and fast breaks. At the end of the game tonight, Auburn proved they could not handle pressure but Bama never tried it before the end of the game when it was a desperate situation. That's not very good coaching. Add to that the lack of improvement in fundamentals and lack of player development as mentioned in the writeup, I can see the writer's point-of-view for sure. I hope Avery improves.

AlexanderFan · Feb 5, 2017

Only at Alabama can we speak patience in one breath and want to fire him the next.

Cruise on over to the recruiting board and you'll see," Recruiting isn't an exact science." I can only imagine with five guys instead of 22 that your misses will be far more glaring. The basketball program is in a shambles, inside and out. Accept it. Forget that Elite 8 run, it's long gone. This program is in the shadow of the football program. Right now that shadow is all consuming. It will take time and hard work.

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TitleWave · Feb 5, 2017

RTR91 said:
Is this serious?

Misplaced seriousness, maybe. You really can't overestimate the grace period Avery bought himself by coming in as the anti-Grant.

As far as "the process" vis-a-vis 'Bama hoops, needs to be noted that a fair (or unfair) share of the current roster is - to be blunt - "unprocessable." Avery can't make silky shooters out of airballers, or playmakers out of somebody who oughtn't be playing in the first place. One in particular l carp about, but the mere fact he rates 35 minutes' PT a game despite glaring shortcomings in every phase is oh so telltale.

gamersfuel · Feb 5, 2017

we cant improve what we dont have. talent was lacking the moment he arrived. so guess what happens when your best player graduates from a team already lacking in talent. There was no way in heck we would be anything more than an NIT team this year. We got at least 3-4 guys logging major minutes who should be only getting in games up 20 with 30 seconds left. I'd take Auburns second 5 vs our starting 5. That shows how much i think of our overall team talent. Considering what we have, i'm surprised we have managed some of the wins we have managed to get.

Bama Shoals said:
I agree with it. Avery Johnson is showing some deficiencies as a coach right now. If you have a bad half court offensive team who lacks shooters, try to get them easy shots through pressure and fast breaks. At the end of the game tonight, Auburn proved they could not handle pressure but Bama never tried it before the end of the game when it was a desperate situation. That's not very good coaching. Add to that the lack of improvement in fundamentals and lack of player development as mentioned in the writeup, I can see the writer's point-of-view for sure. I hope Avery improves.

CrimsonProf · Feb 5, 2017

Good grief.

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day-day · Feb 5, 2017

TitleWave said:
Misplaced seriousness, maybe. You really can't overestimate the grace period Avery bought himself by coming in as the anti-Grant.

As far as "the process" vis-a-vis 'Bama hoops, needs to be noted that a fair (or unfair) share of the current roster is - to be blunt - "unprocessable." Avery can't make silky shooters out of airballers, or playmakers out of somebody who oughtn't be playing in the first place. One in particular l carp about, but the mere fact he rates 35 minutes' PT a game despite glaring shortcomings in every phase is oh so telltale.

Key averages the most minutes at just over 28 minutes per game. No one comes close to 35. Don't know what you have against Key except for his turnovers; Key needs to be playing. Hale and King being out means more minutes for others.

Bama Shoals · Feb 5, 2017

It amazes me how some people on here want to just totally dismiss someone's opinion on here because of some pre-conceived idea they have. I know that Alabama is lacking in talent and that's not totally on Avery Johnson but some of it is. The thing about small classes as mentioned above is it also only takes one or two major hits to turn a program around. He's had two full and a partial cycle now and has mostly missed on his players. He seems to have major talent coming next year so we'll see what he does with it.

But I wasn't even thinking of that when I made my initial post. Everyone saw last night how rattled Auburn was with pressure. They could not handle it. Why was that not tried earlier in the game when it could have made a difference on the outcome? At least, it could have shaken up Auburn enough to take them out of their 3 point shooting rhythm. The in-game adjustments, or lack thereof, and the lack of fundamentals and player development are troubling signs with this coaching staff. That's all I'm saying.

RTR91 · Feb 5, 2017

day-day said:
Key averages the most minutes at just over 28 minutes per game. No one comes close to 35. Don't know what you have against Key except for his turnovers; Key needs to be playing. Hale and King being out means more minutes for others.

Think he's referencing Riley. He's averaged 30+ minutes per game over the last two weeks.

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day-day · Feb 5, 2017

RTR91 said:
Think he's referencing Riley. He's averaged 30+ minutes per game over the last two weeks.

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Kind of thought he was...

I would like to see Davis taking some of the shots and thought a while back that Coach Johnson was rotating players in and then going with the "hot" hand. The first 5 trips or so by Bama's offense in the 2nd half were frustrating because Bama had very good looks multiple times without hitting shots; AU was missing like crazy during this time and Alabama could not take advantage. I'll agree with TitleWave about one of the guilty parties and I understand that naming players in a negative fashion is bad mojo so thanks for that.

I wonder if Coach Johnson feels that he no longer has the depth to press full court though he's been without a healthy Hale and King for while now. I know there have been times when he went with it when the energy level was down and the team's play picked up all over the court (usually need to score to set it up).

ETA: I've been reading the political discussions on Non-Sports forum so I may have got a little smart-alecky in my earlier post because that's 90% of what I see over there. I've got to stay away from that.

gamersfuel · Feb 5, 2017

Bama Shoals said:
It amazes me how some people on here want to just totally dismiss someone's opinion on here because of some pre-conceived idea they have. I know that Alabama is lacking in talent and that's not totally on Avery Johnson but some of it is. The thing about small classes as mentioned above is it also only takes one or two major hits to turn a program around. He's had two full and a partial cycle now and has mostly missed on his players. He seems to have major talent coming next year so we'll see what he does with it.

But I wasn't even thinking of that when I made my initial post. Everyone saw last night how rattled Auburn was with pressure. They could not handle it. Why was that not tried earlier in the game when it could have made a difference on the outcome? At least, it could have shaken up Auburn enough to take them out of their 3 point shooting rhythm. The in-game adjustments, or lack thereof, and the lack of fundamentals and player development are troubling signs with this coaching staff. That's all I'm saying.

his first full class is on the floor this year. He's got some good ones of course coming in next season. IMO he's getting the guys he wants. He's not missing very much in my eyes.

CrimsonProf · Feb 5, 2017

These guys are playing hard, but this roster wouldn't do much better if Callisto was the coach.

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RTR91 · Feb 5, 2017

Bama Shoals said:
It amazes me how some people on here want to just totally dismiss someone's opinion on here because of some pre-conceived idea they have. I know that Alabama is lacking in talent and that's not totally on Avery Johnson but some of it is. The thing about small classes as mentioned above is it also only takes one or two major hits to turn a program around. He's had two full and a partial cycle now and has mostly missed on his players. He seems to have major talent coming next year so we'll see what he does with it.

This isn't even close to being true.

Since I'm on a desktop, I can expound on how inaccurate this is.

Avery Johnston was hired on April 5, 2015. At that time, Dont'a Hall and Brandon Austin had scholarships signed to play for Alabama. Dazon Ingram had backed out of his signed LOI after Grant's firing. Avery had to recruit Dazon over two weeks, and Dazon signed with Alabama again on April 17.

Alabama brought in Arthur Edwards as a graduate transfer for the 2015-2016 season. He also brought in Nick King as a transfer from Memphis.

Because of basketball recruiting, Avery had no chance to really recruit other players. The majority had already signed in November 2014.

In regards to the class of 2016, Alabama signed the #58 player in the nation (BTW, clearly the best player on the team) in Braxton Key and the #8 JUCO player. Avery had Terrance Ferguson (#16 player) committed until he flipped to Arizona. He wouldn't have mattered, though because he wouldn't have qualified.

Then, he gets Daniel Giddens (#49 player in Class of 2015) to transfer from Ohio State as well as graduate transfers Corban Collins and Bola Olaniyan.

The only miss you can say Avery has had thus far in his recruiting would be Armond because of his inconsistency. If you want to say he missed on Nick King, I guess you can as long as you assume he knew he would get sick this year and miss half the season.

One real recruiting cycle brought Alabama the #7 and #30 players in the nation and the current fifth ranked class on 247.

JDCrimson · Feb 5, 2017

The only gripe I have really is the FT shooting, passing, and ballhandling of the team. I get that we don't have a lot of good shooters but if we simply took care of the ball, make our FTs, and play defense we would have this game a couple more this season. I put the weaknesses in these areas more on the players than coaches. Good FT shooting comes from extra practice. Protecting the ball is a mentality. Ball handling is sort of like shooting some players are naturally better at it than others. Our players have got to want to be good in all phases of the game.

Just like in baseball, sometimes you have to win with small ball.

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TitleWave · Feb 6, 2017

BiB, y'all still got the Shootout up there? If so, maybe Avery can pluck some New England native talent for the Tide. Remember this one - wow, 30 years on now - who "migrated," albeit briefly (as was his time on earth)?

Bama Shoals · Feb 6, 2017

RTR91 said:
This isn't even close to being true.

Since I'm on a desktop, I can expound on how inaccurate this is.

Avery Johnston was hired on April 5, 2015. At that time, Dont'a Hall and Brandon Austin had scholarships signed to play for Alabama. Dazon Ingram had backed out of his signed LOI after Grant's firing. Avery had to recruit Dazon over two weeks, and Dazon signed with Alabama again on April 17.

Alabama brought in Arthur Edwards as a graduate transfer for the 2015-2016 season. He also brought in Nick King as a transfer from Memphis.

Because of basketball recruiting, Avery had no chance to really recruit other players. The majority had already signed in November 2014.

In regards to the class of 2016, Alabama signed the #58 player in the nation (BTW, clearly the best player on the team) in Braxton Key and the #8 JUCO player. Avery had Terrance Ferguson (#16 player) committed until he flipped to Arizona. He wouldn't have mattered, though because he wouldn't have qualified.

Then, he gets Daniel Giddens (#49 player in Class of 2015) to transfer from Ohio State as well as graduate transfers Corban Collins and Bola Olaniyan.

The only miss you can say Avery has had thus far in his recruiting would be Armond because of his inconsistency. If you want to say he missed on Nick King, I guess you can as long as you assume he knew he would get sick this year and miss half the season.

One real recruiting cycle brought Alabama the #7 and #30 players in the nation and the current fifth ranked class on 247.

The partial class would be the one when he was hired. The two full would be the one he had last year and the one he got this year that will come in next season.

I would say Davis is not an SEC player, especially since he was JUCO and was expected to play and contribute right away. King, when he was healthy, did not show to be a difference maker. Collins has been hit and miss as a transfer and Olaniyan is no where near an SEC caliber player. Avery Jr. is scared to death of any pressure at all. These examples make me nervous as far as talent evaluation goes.

Then back to fundamentals. Look back at the game and see how many times people run out at three point shooters with hands down. They are not closing out properly. You should have hands up with weight back to able to contain the drive if they pump fake and go. After they make the first ten, you would think they would for sure run them off the three point line and at least make them score a different way. Again, signs of poor coaching.

I'm not saying fire Avery Johnson as some want to conclude when anyone criticizes a coach. I'm just saying these are troubling signs. He will have to get a boatload of talent to overcome the lack of fundamentals being shown by his team right now.

RTR91 · Feb 6, 2017

Bama Shoals said:
The partial class would be the one when he was hired. The two full would be the one he had last year and the one he got this year that will come in next season.

I mean... I guess you can say the 2016 class was a full year, but basketball recruiting starts much earlier than football to the point many guys are already focused on a select few schools by the summer.

I would say Davis is not an SEC player, especially since he was JUCO and was expected to play and contribute right away.

Armond has been inconsistent. Why? Who knows. The guy was deadly in JUCO and showed it in numerous videos over the summer.

King, when he was healthy, did not show to be a difference maker.

You mean the guy that didn't play last year and was getting some rust off while Avery figured out the rotation?

Collins has been hit and miss as a transfer and Olaniyan is no where near an SEC caliber player.

Bola has done what he was brought to Tuscaloosa to do - rebound. He is second on the team in rebounds with 5.7 a game. No one expected him to be a huge inside scoring presence.

Avery Jr. is scared to death of any pressure at all.

AJ comes off the bench for a reason. He's a complimentary player that knows the system. Thus, he's good to give Corban and/or Dazon some rest.

These examples make me nervous as far as talent evaluation goes.

What about the talent evaluation of bringing in Arthur Edwards and Braxton Key and signing Sexton and Petty?

Then back to fundamentals. Look back at the game and see how many times people run out at three point shooters with hands down. They are not closing out properly. You should have hands up with weight back to able to contain the drive if they pump fake and go. After they make the first ten, you would think they would for sure run them off the three point line and at least make them score a different way. Again, signs of poor coaching.

I'm not saying fire Avery Johnson as some want to conclude when anyone criticizes a coach. I'm just saying these are troubling signs. He will have to get a boatload of talent to overcome the lack of fundamentals being shown by his team right now.

So you don't want to fire the guy you clearly don't trust with talent evaluations and fundamentals.

BamaMike05 · Feb 7, 2017

RTR91 said:
I mean... I guess you can say the 2016 class was a full year, but basketball recruiting starts much earlier than football to the point many guys are already focused on a select few schools by the summer.

Armond has been inconsistent. Why? Who knows. The guy was deadly in JUCO and showed it in numerous videos over the summer.

You mean the guy that didn't play last year and was getting some rust off while Avery figured out the rotation?

Bola has done what he was brought to Tuscaloosa to do - rebound. He is second on the team in rebounds with 5.7 a game. No one expected him to be a huge inside scoring presence.

AJ comes off the bench for a reason. He's a complimentary player that knows the system. Thus, he's good to give Corban and/or Dazon some rest.

What about the talent evaluation of bringing in Arthur Edwards and Braxton Key and signing Sexton and Petty?

So you don't want to fire the guy you clearly don't trust with talent evaluations and fundamentals.

Agree with everything that you said RTR... some people really should just stick to the football and recruiting board.

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Bama Shoals · Feb 7, 2017

BamaMike05 said:
Agree with everything that you said RTR... some people really should just stick to the football and recruiting board.

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We'll see. Hopefully I'm wrong. And by the way, I'm a basketball guy. Have played and watched it all of my life.

ChrisD: Auburn 82, Alabama 77: Hard questions ahead in wake of Johnson’s second-year slump

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